Donald Trumps Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It was revealed to him by God, he didn't invent it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It was revealed to him by God, he didn't invent it God created a lot of hassle that night. I wonder if He's proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 It was revealed to him by God, he didn't invent it Not my God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Muhammad made his revelations up as he went along. No "god" or "angel" spoke to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endovelicus Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It's no surprise when the founder of their religion married a 6 yr old and consummated the marriage when she was 9 (and he was in his 50s). And this is the same guy who carried out genocide against a Jewish tribe (Banu Nadir) and forced its leader's 17 yr old daughter to become one of his wives. How anyone could believe someone like that was a messenger of God is beyond me. You just don’t understand what I was saying, do you, Mr Jefferson? Either that or you’re deliberately trying to derail it because you’d rather find a way to condemn people of a different religion to you than actually address the problem of women being raped, abused and murdered by men of EVERY - FUCKING - STUPID - RELIGION! You narrowed the focus onto one of the examples I gave simply because it involved Muslims. Are you trying to tell me the Hindus who raped and hanged girls, or the Russian Orthodox politician who told his aides to ‘brutally rape’ someone, did so because Muhammad married a 9-year-old? You think things are somehow ‘different’ among Jewish people? Do you recall the quote from Judge Nissim Yeshaya of the District Court in Tel Aviv that “Some girls enjoy being raped?” That was less than a year ago – and one thing that emerged from it was that Crisis Centres in Israel receive more than 40,000 calls from women reporting sexual assault each year. Can you get that in your head? Forty-fucking-thousand sexual assaults in what is supposed to be a civilised and religious country!!! Did you not hear about the gang rape of a 12-year-old girl in Tel Aviv? It wasn’t those pesky Muslims. It was ‘nice’ Israeli boys. The last I heard, arrests numbers were in double figures! And I’m not, before you say anything, trying to ‘pick on’ Israel or Judaism or anything else. What I’m pointing out is that virtually EACH AND EVERY RELIGION that has existed over the past millennia has encouraged the view that men were entitled to dominate, use and abuse women. The only difference has been the degree to which it was/is made apparent. The evil is not simply Islamic or Jewish, Catholic, Hindu or whatever. It is universal. It is something that may well be innate; a part of the male psyche or something. I wouldn’t know about that. What I do know is that EVERY RELIGION, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, reinforces it; either by exclusion of women from the priesthood or decision-making processes, or by referring to the myths and legends of ignorant people from the past as unassailable truths. No matter how much people pay their lip-service to equality, it will never come about completely until it is realised that there is no ‘higher power’ (masculine, of course) making the rules we all have to live by. Religion, every religion, represents the greatest force for evil on our planet and until it is erased there can never be any kind of true equality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endovelicus Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Responding to Jefferson I'm disappointed that you got into a religious argument rather than turning it back onto the important matter - the disgusting way that many men still think about and treat women. Skype 4445453122268 and regards from PC in east Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 the problem of women being raped, abused and murdered by men of EVERY - FUCKING - STUPID - RELIGION! Fixed. Although all religion is guff and an insult to the intelligence, I think it is mainly used as an excuse to get away with heinous acts rather than always driving them. Humans are animals with all the urges, cunning and emotions extant in the wild. We see it in all walks of life from big business corruption to child molestation. People don't need an awful lot of encouragement to do shameful things if they have the opportunity, the means, the strength and preferably a way of explaining it away after the event. We have all heard of the perfectly nice chap who did what he did in "a moment of madness". Women engage in shocking acts too, as recent cases of child abuse and murder illustrate. Naturally, the male is the worst offender because of his hormonal make up and physical power. A woman might like to do something dastardly to a man but reasons that she might come off worse and thinks better of it. Occasionally, "man bites dog" and we see she chopped his penis off while he slept or something equally unsavoury. Women often indulge in psychological abuse to drive a man insane. That can despatch a man to his grave. We don't understand very much about our own existence. What civilisation and even consciousness we all have now is the result of climbing the slippery walls and looking over the rim of a very large and murky tub of urge and instinct over millions of years. This is not to say we shouldn't do our utmost to continue to progress. Don't be surprised though when the primeval breaks through. It is literally the nature of the beast and, like it or not, we all have the capacity to do evil. Some have better control of their urges or fear the consequences of acting on them more than others. Punishment needs to be harsh and society needs to be vigilant. A problem we have is that civilisations come and go due to each in turn becoming soft on the strong and ruthless who would destroy them. For this reason it has been three steps forward, two steps back and will continue to be so. Fortunately, we have also developed our compassion, also present in the animal kingdom, and life holds many treasures in human kindness as well as the pain, so take the positive and don't be embittered. Take care on your travels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 You just don’t understand what I was saying, do you, Mr Jefferson? Either that or you’re deliberately trying to derail it because you’d rather find a way to condemn people of a different religion to you than actually address the problem of women being raped, abused and murdered by men of EVERY - FUCKING - STUPID - RELIGION! You narrowed the focus onto one of the examples I gave simply because it involved Muslims. Are you trying to tell me the Hindus who raped and hanged girls, or the Russian Orthodox politician who told his aides to ‘brutally rape’ someone, did so because Muhammad married a 9-year-old? I didn't narrow the focus at all. The subject of this thread is the situation in the MUSLIM country of Sudan and a judgement made by a MUSLIM judge following MUSLIM sharia law, all of which is based on the teachings and the life of the MUSLIM founder, Muhammad. So how you can say I have somehow derailed my own thread by mentioning pertinent facts about Muhammad? If you want to discuss Hindus or Russian Orthodox then go right ahead and create a thread about rape of women in India or Russia; however, this thread is about Sudan, a Muslim country, and in fact is nothing to do with rape. The topic is a woman being accused of apostasy and sentenced to death. You think things are somehow ‘different’ among Jewish people? Do you recall the quote from Judge Nissim Yeshaya of the District Court in Tel Aviv that “Some girls enjoy being raped?” That was less than a year ago – and one thing that emerged from it was that Crisis Centres in Israel receive more than 40,000 calls from women reporting sexual assault each year. Can you get that in your head? Forty-fucking-thousand sexual assaults in what is supposed to be a civilised and religious country!!! Did you not hear about the gang rape of a 12-year-old girl in Tel Aviv? It wasn’t those pesky Muslims. It was ‘nice’ Israeli boys. The last I heard, arrests numbers were in double figures! Yes, things are different among Jewish people; you're presenting a false equivalency, pointing to a minority of cases as if it somehow constituted the rule. Talking about 40,000 sexual assaults and then coming up with one example where it was Jews is disingenuous; you're implying all 40,000 were by Jews, when the fact is there are a lot of Jewish women being raped and murdered by Arabs/Palestinians. P.S. Not all Israelis are Jews. And I’m not, before you say anything, trying to ‘pick on’ Israel or Judaism or anything else. What I’m pointing out is that virtually EACH AND EVERY RELIGION that has existed over the past millennia has encouraged the view that men were entitled to dominate, use and abuse women. The only difference has been the degree to which it was/is made apparent. The evil is not simply Islamic or Jewish, Catholic, Hindu or whatever. It is universal. It is something that may well be innate; a part of the male psyche or something. I wouldn’t know about that. What I do know is that EVERY RELIGION, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, reinforces it; either by exclusion of women from the priesthood or decision-making processes, or by referring to the myths and legends of ignorant people from the past as unassailable truths. No matter how much people pay their lip-service to equality, it will never come about completely until it is realised that there is no ‘higher power’ (masculine, of course) making the rules we all have to live by. Religion, every religion, represents the greatest force for evil on our planet and until it is erased there can never be any kind of true equality. What does religion have to do with it? You're presenting yet another false equivalency, this time between religions. I'm afraid it goes much deeper than religion. You'll find plenty of atheist rapists. If you got rid of religion, you'd not get rid of rape. Nor does the inclusion of religion cause rape. The link you're trying to make is tenuous. The only valid point you might have with regard to religion is that belief in the divine revelation of principles or practices back in the Bronze Age could crystalise those Bronze Age principles, meaning patriarchalism or bigotry against women would be perpetuated in the name of the religion. However, what does that have to do with rape? Can you really say bigotry against women is the cause of rape? I know quite a few male chauvinist pigs but they're not rapists. Anyway, the subject of this thread is specifically Sudan which is a Muslim country. Whether God exists or not is irrelevant. And the God I believe in is certainly not "masculine"; I could just as easily say "Goddess", as it would make as much sense. No matter how much people pay their lip-service to equality, it will never come about completely until it is realised that there is no ‘higher power’ (masculine, of course) making the rules we all have to live by. Religion, every religion, represents the greatest force for evil on our planet and until it is erased there can never be any kind of true equality. Total rubbish. Your anti-religious bigotry is really showing. The greatest force for evil on our planet, the biggest cause of all the war, suffering and poverty in the world, is selfishness and greed. This would exist with or without religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Responding to Jefferson I'm disappointed that you got into a religious argument rather than turning it back onto the important matter - the disgusting way that many men still think about and treat women. Skype 4445453122268 and regards from PC in east I'm disappointed that you would lump billions of human beings into two arbitrary categories. What a black and white, simplistic worldview you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If male repression of women, and male violence against women, was confined to Muslim countries you would have a point, Mr Jefferson. But it isn't, and we need to look beyond religious creed for an explanation. Rather than distancing ourselves from the evil by defining a 'them' to blame, we really should be more self-analytical. See my post 62. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Good post TJ. As you can see from mine I don't have religion but you argued your case eruditely in the face of Endo's hysterical rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 If male repression of women, and male violence against women, was confined to Muslim countries you would have a point, Mr Jefferson. But it isn't, and we need to look beyond religious creed for an explanation. Rather than distancing ourselves from the evil by defining a 'them' to blame, we really should be more self-analytical. See my post 62. You say we need to look beyond religious creeds; I also think we need to look beyond male versus female. Human beings mistreat each other along multiple different lines. For example, in almost every country I can think of, there is feudal, class and caste discrimination and consequent inequality. In India, there are tens of millions of "untouchables", the lower caste who do all the hard work, and they're male and female. You don't just have the caste society structured around men at the top and women at the bottom -- although certainly women have an inferior position within their own caste. However, in total, men and women in the upper castes are both complicit in perpetuating the caste distinctions. The same is true of the class system here. Rape should be put in the context of human beings mistreating each other, instead of promoting this bizarre male versus female dichotomy. Where Endo goes wrong is in making no distinction between rape and patriarchalism. Some of these brain dead feminists even think consensual sex itself is a form of rape -- all part of the brainwashing and social engineering which will culminate in the Anti-Sex League of 1984 and the revulsion of the family unit in A Brave New World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Which millennia are you living in TJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I was about to ask how many millennia you can live in until I realised that most of us have lived in two already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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