quilp Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Joking aside... It was the same with hezbollah in 2006/7. International reportage was subject to a basic but, effective tactic by the palestinian propaganda-machine. http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/31/spanish-journalist-on-why-hamas-never-photographed-in-action-if-ever-we-dared-point-our-camera-o (Great article, lots of links on the historics of this ongoing madness) Israel already planning and preparing for the aftermath. It will fall on them to provide aid and medical expertise when battle ends. It might be some time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkH Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Israel have so far killed an estimated 1200 + civilians and 200 combatants during "Protective Edge". During the same period, Hamas have killed 3 civilians and 63 combatants. Whatever you make of Hamas, the Israeli state are war criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) Israel have so far killed an estimated 1200 + civilians and 200 combatants during "Protective Edge". During the same period, Hamas have killed 3 civilians and 63 combatants. Whatever you make of Hamas, the Israeli state are war criminals. FFS. Of course less Israelis have died -- their government has built bomb shelters which their civilians keep having to evacuate to. If the Israeli civilians didn't go into their bomb shelters, you'd be looking at thousands of deaths on the Israeli side. Edited August 2, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkH Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Israel have so far killed an estimated 1200 + civilians and 200 combatants during "Protective Edge". During the same period, Hamas have killed 3 civilians and 63 combatants. Whatever you make of Hamas, the Israeli state are war criminals. What a moronic statement. Of course less Israelis have died -- their government has built bomb shelters which they keep having to evacuate to. If the Israeli citizens didn't go into their bomb shelters, you'd be looking at thousands of deaths on the Israeli side. Duh. FFS. You are comparing a possibility with a reality, Israel have shown little restraint despite being immeasurably better equipped and with adequate defences. It looks like genocide from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 You are comparing a possibility with a reality, Israel have shown little restraint despite being immeasurably better equipped and with adequate defences. It looks like genocide from here. So Israel is automatically the bad guy because they're better equipped and have provided their civilians with bomb shelters? If they closed their bomb shelters, put away all their better equipment, and resorted to the same technological level as Hamas, thus incurring a significantly higher civilian death toll, would they be alright in your books? FFS. Yes, I'm sure it does look like "genocide" from the comfort of your middle class home, while you mindlessly watch the anti-Israel propaganda on Channel 4, Granada Tonight, and BBC News. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Watched a lot and read a lot over this conflict, the entrenched views piss me off so much. Whilst people continue to say 'Hamas did this' or 'Israel did this' it simply leads to more innocent civilians and kids being killed, and every one of these deaths is an absolute disgrace. Truth is a massively funded well equiped super power of blowing a piece of land to bits where residents are deprived of human rights. On the other side a few leaders of a radical group who unfortunately seem to be in power in Palestine seem hell bent on continuing the conflict and trying in vain to cause the same devastation to Israel and are failing miserably......,meanwhile while these politicians and leaders make these decisions....families are being wiped off the earth....its an absolute abomination. The leaders of these groups should be taken into a room by the most powerful leaders on our planet and told that if they do not stop this murder, then an international force will stop it for them.....and the sending of hundreds of millions of dollars from the 'land of the free' to Israel this week to continue with military systems is quite frankly repulsive.....As Russel Brand says....forget all the they did this or they did that....start asking questions about how peace is achieved now.....and for the future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Watched a lot and read a lot over this conflict, the entrenched views piss me off so much. Whilst people continue to say 'Hamas did this' or 'Israel did this' it simply leads to more innocent civilians and kids being killed, and every one of these deaths is an absolute disgrace. Truth is a massively funded well equiped super power of blowing a piece of land to bits where residents are deprived of human rights. On the other side a few leaders of a radical group who unfortunately seem to be in power in Palestine seem hell bent on continuing the conflict and trying in vain to cause the same devastation to Israel and are failing miserably......,meanwhile while these politicians and leaders make these decisions....families are being wiped off the earth....its an absolute abomination. The leaders of these groups should be taken into a room by the most powerful leaders on our planet and told that if they do not stop this murder, then an international force will stop it for them.....and the sending of hundreds of millions of dollars from the 'land of the free' to Israel this week to continue with military systems is quite frankly repulsive.....As Russel Brand says....forget all the they did this or they did that....start asking questions about how peace is achieved now.....and for the future.... The best chance for peace is for someone to blow earth into a million pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Pretty ridiculous for someone to come on here and condemn people who say "Israel did this" or "Hamas did that", telling us it will simply lead to more people dying, and to then go into a big rant blaming everything on Israel. Hahahaha. Edited August 3, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Mention is made by Mark that Israel is better equipped. I don't think that they are. To begin with this present war is not being fought in Gaza city, it's being fought in the press and with a disciplined military force intent on protecting their own nation on one side, and by a collection of thugs supported by Turkey and Qatar on the other. A bunch lf thugs and indoctrinated people who are more than willing to become martyrs for their cause and if that means using themselves or their kids as weapons of war then so be it. Israel certainly does not have such weapons to call upon and even if some Israelis were willing to sacrifice themselves for their homeland the powers that be would never countenance such a thing. So some superiority of weaponry. Israel are outgunned every which way when it comes down to shaping world opinion and support as Mark has proven with his claims. As for genocide, yet that has been taking place. Can't get away from that one. But genocide attacks by hamas. Look for the definition of genocide and compare it with the aims of hamas and it will become verfy clear which side has genocide as its aim and it's not Israel. When I launched this thread I was inclined against what I thought that was being done by Israel. Actually rather a lot, but since I've taken time which I now have a great deal of to look deeper into the present trouble and the background my opinion has changed completely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkH Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Spook, can't argue with your take on Hamas, they do not have Israels best interests at heart! This is where Israel have been far more shrewd as far as p.r. goes. For the past 7 decades Israel has worked tirelessly at turfing Palestinians out of their territories and farms - they clearly have ethnic cleansing on their agenda but don't declare it to the world. Israel have state of the art missiles, armour, aircraft, drones and target acquisition systems, not to mention Iron Dome and bomb shelters. Hamas have sod all by comparison. Any casualty, whether Palestinian or Israeli is a sad waste of life but 1200+ civilian casualties courtesy of Israel indicate war crimes have been committed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Why does the media say very little about hundreds of thousands of muslims killed by other muslims? Is that not convenient? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 NBC News Report Takes You Inside Hamas Tunnels To Witness Israelis’ Fear First-Hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Spook, can't argue with your take on Hamas, they do not have Israels best interests at heart! This is where Israel have been far more shrewd as far as p.r. goes. For the past 7 decades Israel has worked tirelessly at turfing Palestinians out of their territories and farms - they clearly have ethnic cleansing on their agenda but don't declare it to the world. Israel have state of the art missiles, armour, aircraft, drones and target acquisition systems, not to mention Iron Dome and bomb shelters. Hamas have sod all by comparison. Any casualty, whether Palestinian or Israeli is a sad waste of life but 1200+ civilian casualties courtesy of Israel indicate war crimes have been committed. So you obviously don't consider that hamas have ethnic-cleansng on their agenda? If you take the time to read hamas' charter you'll see that their intention is to cleanse the area of the Jew and the rhetoric used is typical of islamic supremacist nature. Like many, you're not really looking at the bigger, more ancient picture of the area and the conflict that goes back for almost 2 millennia, to a time before the advent of christianity or islam, when Judaism and the tribe who invented it, proliferated. How would the situation be if the military might was reversed and hamas had the superior weaponry? It'd be another holocaust, without doubt. This episode of conflict is but another battle in an ancient war (have you read the koran?). War crimes? Hamas fire their inaccurate rockets into civilian areas, not knowing nor caring where they might land. If they managed to kill Israeli civilians they'd rejoice with the usual ranting of 'allahu akbar'! Were they able to penetrate the Israeli defences they would target any Jew they came across; young, old, male, female, combatant or civilian, it wouldn't matter. The Jew blood must be spilt, inshallah. Israel, on the other hand, warn the civilian population of Gaza when and where they'll attack, giving non-combatants an opportunity to leave the area. Yet hamas are guilty of herding their people into the very area designated and telling them not to leave, be martyrs for the cause of jihad and citing passages from the koran to validate their skewed and deadly tactics. Hamas are animals, prepared to sacrifice their own people for their own ends. A disgusting war-crime if ever there was! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkH Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Quilp, read the first line of my last post again - I absolutely understand that Hamas want to see Israel gone. Israel have still committed war crimes by killing non-combatants, 1200+ mothers, daughters, fathers and sons. The only reason Israel exists today is because of the horrific genocide during WWII - makes it seems perverse what they are doing to the Palestinians today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 It's unfortunate that the press in Gaza are all obviously being well managed by their hamas handlers. It's also unfortunate that the press fail to show the hamas fighters or mention the number of insurgents and the role that other countries, especially Qatar and Turkey are playing. Turkey so desperate to gain accession to the EU. Let's hope their involvement with hamas rules EU membership outwith any luck for ever. Tonight I read a report that set out the requirements that hamas has set in order for them to agree to a cease fire. In essence they can be described as surrender by Israel. If hamas really had the best interests of the people in the Gaza Strip they would have adopted an entirely stance but of course they did not. And people are blaming Israel for what is taking place? Unbelievable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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