Israel vs. the rest of the world?

[Chinahand]

I have admired Salman Rushdie for many many years. 

 

[The Phantom]

45 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

I have admired Salman Rushdie for many many years. 

 

The formation of an independent Palestine would mean the creation of a “Taliban-like state” that would become a “client” of Iran, Salman Rushdie has said.

The author said that, despite his longstanding support for a Palestinian state, he was concerned that if it were established now it would be run by Hamas. “That would make it a Taliban-like state, and it would be a client state of Iran,” he said.

He told the podcast that he had mixed opinions about the “student upheaval” at New York University, where he is a faculty member, as he believed they had a right to demonstrate, but also that other students had a right to feel safe.

“I feel that there’s not a lot of deep thought happening,” he said. “There’s an emotional reaction to the death in Gaza, and that’s absolutely right. But when it slides over towards antisemitism and sometimes to actual support of Hamas, then it’s very problematic.”

“The fact is that I think any human being right now has to be distressed by what is happening in Gaza because of the quantity of innocent death. I would just like some of the protests to mention Hamas. Because that’s where this started, and Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It’s very strange for young, progressive student politics to kind of support a fascist terrorist group.”

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, The Phantom said:

They can't do much if they won't leave Russia! 

Quite.

Gesture politics...

[HeliX]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69055989

Israel's twitterers are of course now stating that the ICJ is Hamas.

[TheTeapot]

Any and all criticism of Israel is antisemitic and Hamas. 

Its good that the international agencies are pushing back, though I actually think the 'charges' brought against Bini and co were a mistake. Should have waited. Israel doesn't care what the ICJ thinks anyway, the openly defying the US is more important.

[The Phantom]

6 minutes ago, HeliX said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69055989

Israel's twitterers are of course now stating that the ICJ is Hamas.

Lebanese Judge, Nawaf Salam, is 100% unbiased I'm sure. 

Just to remind everyone that yesterday videos were released of Hamas telling their female hostages just after capture how beautiful they are and how they would father their children.  Hamas aren't at all to blame for this!

Also remember the main driver of this are the ANC Govt of South Africa, who are being played and are also significantly biased. 

But yes, Israel have taken this too far.  Will they listen?  Even Benny's war cabinet appear to be revolting. 

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, The Phantom said:

Lebanese Judge, Nawaf Salam, is 100% unbiased I'm sure. 

Just to remind everyone that yesterday videos were released of Hamas telling their female hostages just after capture how beautiful they are and how they would father their children.  Hamas aren't at all to blame for this!

Also remember the main driver of this are the ANC Govt of South Africa, who are being played and are also significantly biased. 

But yes, Israel have taken this too far.  Will they listen?  Even Benny's war cabinet appear to be revolting. 

The Lebanese judge isn't the only one who voted.

That video of the hostages was immediately debunked by arabic speakers from multiple countries stating that that is not what the Hamas captors said. Of course, by that point it had already been printed in much of the media and accepted by the masses as true. But that's typical of Israel's propaganda machine - claim something utterly false and by the time it's debunked nobody is listening anymore anyway.

[The Phantom]

7 minutes ago, HeliX said:

The Lebanese judge isn't the only one who voted.

That video of the hostages was immediately debunked by arabic speakers from multiple countries stating that that is not what the Hamas captors said. Of course, by that point it had already been printed in much of the media and accepted by the masses as true. But that's typical of Israel's propaganda machine - claim something utterly false and by the time it's debunked nobody is listening anymore anyway.

Yeah and the Taliban are just misunderstood too.

[TheTeapot]

11 minutes ago, HeliX said:

But that's typical of Israel's propaganda machine - claim something utterly false and by the time it's debunked nobody is listening anymore anyway.

Its a hell of a thing

[HeliX]

16 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Yeah and the Taliban are just misunderstood too.

Bit of a non-sequitur. Hamas are undoubtedly bad, but Israel constantly lying to try to win public favour isn't exactly good is it?

[P.K.]

13 hours ago, HeliX said:

The Lebanese judge isn't the only one who voted.

That video of the hostages was immediately debunked by arabic speakers from multiple countries stating that that is not what the Hamas captors said. Of course, by that point it had already been printed in much of the media and accepted by the masses as true. But that's typical of Israel's propaganda machine - claim something utterly false and by the time it's debunked nobody is listening anymore anyway.

Who gives a shit which murderous terrorist said what?

Those poor women have been taken hostage by a terrorist group and they're in mortal danger. To lose sight of that point is pretty bad really...

[P.K.]

13 hours ago, HeliX said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69055989

Israel's twitterers are of course now stating that the ICJ is Hamas.

The human losses in Gaza are an absolute tragedy. No question. So it's important to understand the causes.

Here is an armchair general's plan to destroy Hamas:

On 5/10/2024 at 9:31 AM, RecklessAbandon said:

One of the best funded and internationally supported militaries in the world with access to some of the most sophisticated surveillance and tracking facilities in the world?  What tactics would I employ? Specific and targeted Special Forces raids against verified targets using real time intelligence and international collaboration.

So this ends up on an SF commanders desk. The planners study the target location which will show entry and egress is very difficult, if anything goes wrong they will be isolated and surrounded by heavily armed terrorists. The people on the ground will end up in a firefight because their task is to kill the enemy. Which will probably mean casualties. This will have to be carried out hundreds of times in hundreds of locations because there are at least 30,000 Hamas terrorists in Gaza.

So the commander makes his decision - "Drop a bomb on it..."

Because anything else simply means his own men suffer unnecessary and totally avoidable casualties. Which is unacceptable because his own men trust their commanders to never put their lives at risk if it can be avoided. It's a tragedy for the innocents in the area but unfortunately Hamas just don't care.

Of course, if Hamas had not carried out their brutal assault and then taking their hostages with them scurried back to hide amongst the general population then none of this would have happened...

It's one of the terrorist's most potent weapons. Turning the morality of the democratic nations they attack against their own armed forces. We still see the results of "Bloody Sunday" reverberating around today some sixty years later.

You may recall that on the 7th March 1965 during a civil rights march the IRA very stupidly opened fire on the Parachute Regiment and when you shoot at the British Army they shoot back. I haven't the slightest doubt that at least one and possibly two of the troopers fired at targets when it was vary dubious that their lives were at risk. However it's very difficult to judge as the week before they could have been collecting up body parts in bin-bags after yet another IRA outrage against innocent civilians.

Strange but true you never hear about "Bloody Saturday" 15th August 1998 in Omagh when the IRA blew to a smash 29 people and injured over 200 others. Whatever happened to the moral outrage from that incident...?

[Shake me up Judy]

You make some good points there P.K. Political terrorism has an interesting history of turning democracies against their own armed forces through Marxist/Leninist propaganda. It works a treat every time, providing a foundational injustice and structural cause or origin that's idiot proof. The terrorists always see the struggle as ideological and intellectual (Hearts and minds) just as much as a military/guerilla war. The Palestinians have played a blinder since first sucking in the student revolutionaries of the West in the '60s and '70s with their anti-colonial narrative.

Edited May 25 by Shake me up Judy

[HeliX]

4 hours ago, P.K. said:

Who gives a shit which murderous terrorist said what?

Those poor women have been taken hostage by a terrorist group and they're in mortal danger. To lose sight of that point is pretty bad really...

It matters because the lies are always used to justify horrific levels of civilian casualties to the western world. And then it's revealed it wasn't true, and it's too late, you can't resurrect those civilians.

[HeliX]

1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said:

The Palestinians have played a blinder since first sucking in the student revolutionaries of the West in the '60s and '70s with their anti-colonial narrative.

Or perhaps students are learned enough to spot obvious injustice, and empathetic though to realise that there but for the grace of God...