HeliX Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 13 minutes ago, P.K. said: No they don't view them as the same. It's bleeding obvious to anyone with any common sense that Hamas and the Palestinian Authority are worlds apart. The fact remains that Israel ended up in control of the west bank due to an attempt by the Arab League to destroy the State of Israel. So yet another fuck-up by the AL has led to the situation we have today. @HeliX Time you started bitching at the real villains of the piece... Are the Arab League bombing thousands of kids in Gaza and killing people and stealing their land in the West Bank? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 41 minutes ago, HeliX said: Are the Arab League bombing thousands of kids in Gaza and killing people and stealing their land in the West Bank? I give up. Are they? Or is this just a feeble ploy to avoid condemning the AL for their contribution to the clusterfuck we have today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, P.K. said: I give up. Are they? Or is this just a feeble ploy to avoid condemning the AL for their contribution to the clusterfuck we have today? Nobody is forcing Israel to do what it's doing today. Israel is wholly to blame for children dying, today. That's where the condemnation should go. If we want to trace back the history we can probably blame the British majoritatively, but that won't stop anyone dying will it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, HeliX said: Nobody is forcing Israel to do what it's doing today. Israel is wholly to blame for children dying, today. That's where the condemnation should go. If we want to trace back the history we can probably blame the British majoritatively, but that won't stop anyone dying will it. Errrr if you think very hard I'm sure you will remember that Hamas started the current exchange... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 It is strange to me. HeliX do you really believe if Hamas hadn't undertaken their terrorist attack anything like this would have happened to Gaza? Israel withdrew from Gaza. Attempted a peace process and Hamas has responded with bus bombings, rocket attacks and now mass terrorism (to scupper another peace deal coming out of the Abraham accords). I've raised continually the disastrous leadership the Palestinians have had. Do they have any responsibility for the situation? Every time the Palestinians have used violence there position has got weaker. The richest and most secure Palestinians are Israeli citizens. Why do you think that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 55 minutes ago, P.K. said: Errrr if you think very hard I'm sure you will remember that Hamas started the current exchange... When did the previous "exchange" end? https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 51 minutes ago, Chinahand said: It is strange to me. HeliX do you really believe if Hamas hadn't undertaken their terrorist attack anything like this would have happened to Gaza? The status quo would have continued. Israel would have continued to kill Palestinians, allow them not enough food, water, electricity or building supplies to have meaningful lives, controlled most aspecs of their existence, and continued to steal their land. Quote Israel withdrew from Gaza. Attempted a peace process and Hamas has responded with bus bombings, rocket attacks and now mass terrorism (to scupper another peace deal coming out of the Abraham accords). "Withdrew" but kept control of almost all meaningful parts of Palestinian life. Quote I've raised continually the disastrous leadership the Palestinians have had. Do they have any responsibility for the situation? Sure, but what chance did they have? Quote Every time the Palestinians have used violence there position has got weaker. They have tried political appeals, and have been denied at every turn. They have tried peaceful protest and were killed. If you take away a people's ability to appeal the conditions of their existence via political or peaceful means, the result is deterministically going to be violence. Quote The richest and most secure Palestinians are Israeli citizens. Why do you think that is? Because Israel isn't killing them, crippling their infrastructure, and intentionally keeping their state in a perpetual fight for economic and humanitarian survival. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 This is still free to watch, and still very much worth watching. https://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/gaza-fights-for-freedom/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 45 minutes ago, Chinahand said: It is strange to me. HeliX do you really believe if Hamas hadn't undertaken their terrorist attack anything like this would have happened to Gaza? Israel withdrew from Gaza. Attempted a peace process and Hamas has responded with bus bombings, rocket attacks and now mass terrorism (to scupper another peace deal coming out of the Abraham accords). I've raised continually the disastrous leadership the Palestinians have had. Do they have any responsibility for the situation? Every time the Palestinians have used violence there position has got weaker. The richest and most secure Palestinians are Israeli citizens. Why do you think that is? Do you really think Israel didn't know about the attacks? They could have stopped then easily. They need it to happen to remove Palestinians from Gaza. Regardless of the leaderships of the Palestinians the response of the Israelis is unjustified and abhorrent. It's now a daily occurrence that I see children with nothing left of their skulls or their guts spread around the place on my X feed or, worse still, children collecting plastic bags full of flesh of a family member of so they can have something to bury. They are killing health and aid workers along with journalists with carefree abandon. Demolishing houses of the displaced for pleasure (a dedicated a destruction to his girlfriend yet). Add to this they have declared the West Bank a war zone, which should show you beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is ethnic cleansing. Every time they peacefully protest they are killed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_Gaza_border_protests. Rarely does peaceful protest make significant change and it's even harder to change someone mind if they see you as human animals. As for the richest, that's a bit like Protestants traditionally earned more than Catholics in Northern Ireland or Conservatives (when in power) underfunding Labour councils. The oppressor will always favour the collaborator. This didn't start on 7th October, Gazans have been fenced in and trapped for 15 years with no control over their food, water, or power supplies, whilst the world pretended it wasn't happening. Then when they had the audacity to take the fight to Israel the world pretended to be shocked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 7 hours ago, HeliX said: Because Israel isn't killing them, crippling their infrastructure, and intentionally keeping their state in a perpetual fight for economic and humanitarian survival. The Arab League have to take a lot of the responsibility for the current status quo. So why don't they step in and help? Giving out passports would be a good start don't you think...? I think you'll find that the hardline stance adopted by Israel might just have something to do with the populace putting Hamas, a terrorist organisation bent on the destruction of Israel, in charge of the place where they have flourished. You reap what you sow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 32 minutes ago, P.K. said: The Arab League have to take a lot of the responsibility for the current status quo. So why don't they step in and help? Giving out passports would be a good start don't you think...? This is an argument for forced displacement. That always works. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 11 hours ago, Chinahand said: It is strange to me. HeliX do you really believe if Hamas hadn't undertaken their terrorist attack anything like this would have happened to Gaza? October just gave Israel an excuse to speed up the process that years of apartheid, denial of access to power, water, medicine, food and building materials has done and would have continued to do. I refer you to the article I posted yesterday about illegal settlements at their highest rate in 6 years. The plan is working as intended. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 22 hours ago, HeliX said: When did the previous "exchange" end? https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank @HeliX 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 4 minutes ago, P.K. said: @HeliX 2006. Israel killing kids is just banter then is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 13 hours ago, TheTeapot said: This is an argument for forced displacement. That always works. The current status quo is being forced to rot in Gaza living on handouts as the place gets more and more unsustainable Well, that works well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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