HeliX Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 21 minutes ago, P.K. said: Dear me you just don't get it do you. Probably deliberately. Using the Golan Heights as an example there is no way Israel is ever giving them back. They are a very strategic position where conventional artillery could rain shells down into Israel creating mayhem. Plus an awful lot of blood was spilled on them when Israel amazingly managed to stop a large force of Syrian armour pouring over them and into Israel. So Israel holding the Golan Heights is the new normal for very easily understood reasons. Get used to it... Everything is fine when Israel does it, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 30 minutes ago, P.K. said: Dear me you just don't get it do you. Probably deliberately. It is, just let him ramble on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 23 minutes ago, Passing Time said: It is, just let him ramble on. It's not me who's not getting it. The points I made: Occupiers have no right to self defence in law (true) Israel is currently occupying several Arab territories (true) You'll note PK is aware of this and doesn't bother trying to address it, but rather to obfuscate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 7 hours ago, HeliX said: Everything is fine when Israel does it, of course. And when RTC take the Lezayre Plains, there'll be no going back, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 9 hours ago, HeliX said: It's not me who's not getting it. The points I made: Occupiers have no right to self defence in law (true) Israel is currently occupying several Arab territories (true) You'll note PK is aware of this and doesn't bother trying to address it, but rather to obfuscate. Not at all. The Golan Heights has Israeli forces on one side, Syrian forces on the other side and a UN Disengagement Observer Force in the middle. In other words UN acceptance of the importance of keeping the status quo. Or the new normal as I put it earlier. As it happens I'm against Jewish zealots snaffling up land in the West Bank. The Knesset needs to stop it but under the current regime they probably won't bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 1 minute ago, P.K. said: Not at all. The Golan Heights has Israeli forces on one side, Syrian forces on the other side and a UN Disengagement Observer Force in the middle. In other words UN acceptance of the importance of keeping the status quo. Or the new normal as I put it earlier. As it happens I'm against Jewish zealots snaffling up land in the West Bank. The Knesset needs to stop it but under the current regime they probably won't bother. Or in fewer words, Israel is occupying several countries and therefore not entitled to defend itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 2 hours ago, HeliX said: Or in fewer words, Israel is occupying several countries and therefore not entitled to defend itself. Utter nonsense and you know it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 57 minutes ago, P.K. said: Utter nonsense and you know it... Completely factual under international law and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 7 hours ago, HeliX said: Or in fewer words, Israel is occupying several countries and therefore not entitled to defend itself. I deliberately chose the Golan Heights as my example because it is the only ground that Israel is holding in another actual country. The border was set in the Egypt Israel Accord except that Egypt refused to take back the festering sore that is Gaza and who can blame them. The Jordan Israel accord set a boundary that both sides agreed to. The UN set the boundary between Israel and Lebanon that was agreed by both sides. Frankly I never thought you would sink so low as trying to justify terrorism but that seems to be what you're doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: I deliberately chose the Golan Heights as my example because it is the only ground that Israel is holding in another actual country. The border was set in the Egypt Israel Accord except that Egypt refused to take back the festering sore that is Gaza and who can blame them. The Jordan Israel accord set a boundary that both sides agreed to. The UN set the boundary between Israel and Lebanon that was agreed by both sides. Frankly I never thought you would sink so low as trying to justify terrorism but that seems to be what you're doing... None of those words change the fact that Israel is occupying Gaza, the West Bank, Syria and Lebanon. What a ridiculous and offensive accusation that I'm trying to justify terrorism. The only one of us justifying any civilians deaths is *you*. I am simply stating that Israel's much vaunted "right to defend itself" does not exist under international law because according to international law they are an occupier. You can simply state you don't care if Israel violates international law, as you clearly don't, instead of making frankly stupid accusations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 34 minutes ago, HeliX said: None of those words change the fact that Israel is occupying Gaza, the West Bank, Syria and Lebanon. What a ridiculous and offensive accusation that I'm trying to justify terrorism. The only one of us justifying any civilians deaths is *you*. I am simply stating that Israel's much vaunted "right to defend itself" does not exist under international law because according to international law they are an occupier. You can simply state you don't care if Israel violates international law, as you clearly don't, instead of making frankly stupid accusations. Gaza and the West Bank are not countries. The Golan Heights are strategic and as far as I'm aware they're behind the UN border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 19 minutes ago, P.K. said: Gaza and the West Bank are not countries. The Golan Heights are strategic and as far as I'm aware they're behind the UN border. Israel is an occupier under international law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 6 minutes ago, HeliX said: Israel is an occupier under international law. Good luck with that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Good luck with that one... There's no luck required, it is. It's a statement of fact. One you don't care about, but absolutely would if the parties involved were reversed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 8 minutes ago, HeliX said: There's no luck required, it is. It's a statement of fact. One you don't care about, but absolutely would if the parties involved were reversed. Excuse me but the UN acknowledges that Israel is the Occupying Power of Gaza whose responsibilities include security. So they are in Gaza hunting down a terrorist organisation which is part of their remit and is perfectly legal. You should applaud their actions as you kept banging on about how many in Gaza were not responsible for Hamas being in charge... As Israel has a right to protect itself an incursion into Lebanon is within the law as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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