RecklessAbandon Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 12 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: No. They murdered more than a thousand people and kidnapped about 300. Out of nowhere. Hamas are about as far from 'heroes' as it is possible to be, regardless of any argument. Wait til you find out how many people Israel have murdered. Also while the ANC "only" killed 71 people (those are the murders we know about) over an 8 year period, they were mostly civilians (52 civilians versus 19 security forces). Now stretch that 8 year period out to the same time line as the Israel/Gaza situation and it could easily have been bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 5 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said: Wait til you find out how many people Israel have murdered. Why would you say this to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 18 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Why would you say this to me? Because you said: Quote They murdered more than a thousand people and kidnapped about 300 Israel have murdered approx 40,000 people and have kidnapped - sorry - arrested under military law (fun fact Gazans are not treated as civilians when it comes to law, they are covered by IDF military code of law) roughly 2,200 men and women since Oct 7th (also don't ask them about the roughly 10,000 children - some as young as 12 - that have been held in IDF military prisons over the last 20 years*). *The UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967 presented evidence to the Human Rights Council on Palestinian children in detention, estimating that there are between 500 and 1000 children held in Israeli military detention each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 What the fuck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 What Palestinian Children Face in Israeli Prisons | TIME (Article is from Dec 23) The youngest child who was released by Israeli authorities during the ceasefire was Ahmad Salayme, a 14-year-old boy. Salayme was arrested in May for throwing stones in a Jewish settlement in occupied East Jerusalem. (Settlements are considered illegal under international law.) Salayme’s family had not spoken to him since days before Hamas attacked festival goers in Israel, killing 1,200 people and capturing over 240 hostages. Since then, Israel’s bombardment of the Palestinian enclave has killed at least 18,205 and displaced over 85% of its population, according to UNRWA figures released Dec. 13. As a result, many families have been left wondering if their loved ones survived the aggression. Despite their time apart, Salayme’s family was ordered by Israeli forces not to celebrate their reunion: “They told me no celebrations, and on the day of my release I’m not allowed to leave my house, raise any signs or banners, use a megaphone,” he told Al Jazeera upon his release on Tuesday. “And if I break any of these rules I will be taken back.” Dozens of Palestinians who were released during a 2011 Israel-Hamas prisoner exchange were arrested again by 2014 and their sentences were reinstated. As such, the re-arrest of previously jailed children is highly likely, Brad Parker, an attorney and Senior Policy Adviser at Defense for Children International—Palestine, tells TIME. DCIP is an independent organization that provides detained Palestinian children with legal assistance. Human rights groups have long criticized the workings of Israel’s military law, a legal framework that is selectively applied to Palestinians living in occupied territories, while Israeli settlers hold increased rights under civil law. Save the Children reported that 86 percent of children are beaten in Israeli detention, while 69 percent are strip-searched and 42 percent are subject to injuries during their arrests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: What the fuck? What the fuck indeed, you are right to be outraged at this practice of arresting children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 Are you a bot? Why are you telling me this? Do you think I support the actions of Israel because I don't agree that Hamas are heroes and that the situation has absolutely nothing in common with South Africa? I think you might be mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 1 minute ago, TheTeapot said: Are you a bot? Why are you telling me this? Do you think I support the actions of Israel because I don't agree that Hamas are heroes and that the situation has absolutely nothing in common with South Africa? I think you might be mental. No I am arguing that history is a lens, and the view of what is now might not be the same in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, RecklessAbandon said: considering the South African apartheid regime as a Cold War ally against the Communists. Still are. Russian Navy ships docked in their Naval HQ Simonstown a few months ago and mystery goods were supplied. The ANC and many African 'independence leaders and fighters' against the Western colonial empires were extensively trained and backed by the Soviets. Wagner and others still operating in the Continent. Look at the recent attacks in Mali with Ukrainian SF involvement. 50 something Wagner Troops killed, most of whom were veterans of Ukraine, Syria and Libya. Edited October 9 by The Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 3 hours ago, RecklessAbandon said: Also while the ANC "only" killed 71 people (those are the murders we know about) over an 8 year period, they were mostly civilians (52 civilians versus 19 security forces Thread derail. What planet are you on. Thousands died in ANC - IFP fighting in South Africa in the lead up to the 94 elections. Bizarre ahistoricity batman. ANC war lords fought a violent civil war with Inkartha in the 1990s in Kwa-Zulu Natal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 Channel 4 Documentary on the October 7th Terrorist attack showing now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 I think ignoring the historical context of the conflict between Israel and its neighbours is a big mistake. In the early 1900’s Jewish people wanted to migrate to ‘Palestine’ and not, say, Wales or Africa, because they regarded that relatively small piece of land as their ancient homeland that they were forceable evicted from some 2000 years ago. When they started returning, they tried to ignore everything that happened in the intervening 2000 years and everyone who was then living there - they formed a largely European colony in the middle of an Arab land. The first Jewish settlers were European Jews (many were fleeing persecution in Europe), their leaders were educated Europeans with the views that were held by many Europeans of that time. In the 21C civilised people don’t focus on the rights and aspirations of one particular group; today we see any child as having a right to safe and secure childhood i.e. women and children should not be forced to seek shelter from bombs and devastation that mechanised ‘defence forces’ are inflicting on them. In hindsight, the international community should have demanded that the Oslo Accord be grabbed by both parties both hands, and that every compromise should have been made (as the old adage says: a bad peace is better than a good war), but murderous maniacs on both sides have taken over and this conflict is expanding. If the current Israel Government will be insane enough to strike Iran, all bets are off... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 Just so chilling hearing the Hamas killers laughing how they can't wait to live stream the slaughter of the inhabitants of the Kibbutz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 Similar thought processes similar conclusions. Though I do have some issues where I disagree, but too busy at the moment maybe later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Similar thought processes similar conclusions. Though I do have some issues where I disagree, but too busy at the moment maybe later. Some quite odd logic in this video. "Settler colonialism is fine because other people did it too". "You can't ignore 70 years of history when deciding what's fair about land in the region (but you can ignore the thousand before that)". "Oct 7th was "primarily" targeted at civilians" - I'm not sure this can be stated as fact, the first ~370 or so casualties were military personnel. Hamas claims that the civilian deaths which followed were unintentional - having seen the footage I can only imagine "unintentional" means "not an order from command but still deliberate", and that's being generous. There's dispute over how many of the civilian deaths were actually caused by Israel's fire. When examining who is responsible for the civilian deaths in Gaza, he attributes all the blame to Hamas because they haven't returned the hostages.. while completely ignoring the multiple agreements to return the hostages. He claims the civilian to military ratio is 2:1, but there's no verification of the figures of dead Hamas members so this point is moot. He also claims the pager attack was well targeted, but an attack whereby you do not know where the bombs are cannot by definition be well targeted. Edited October 10 by HeliX 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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