P.K. Posted Friday at 03:19 PM Share Posted Friday at 03:19 PM 1 hour ago, HeliX said: The current action won't destroy Hamas either so doesn't seem like you view that as a requirement. As long as the occupation exists, resistance will exist. When that's not permitted to be political or peaceful it'll be violent. What "occupation" would that be? Do you mean the State of Israel that is recognised by 165 of the UN members. Those who do not recognise the Israeli State are surprise surprise the Arab League and predominantly Muslim countries! Have to say as long as Hamas occupies Gaza it will remain a road to nowhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted Friday at 03:30 PM Share Posted Friday at 03:30 PM 2 hours ago, P.K. said: I mentioned Israeli "sovereignty" to point out that it's a very unusual set of circumstances. ”Sovrinty” surely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted Friday at 03:30 PM Share Posted Friday at 03:30 PM 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: What "occupation" would that be? Do you mean the State of Israel that is recognised by 165 of the UN members. Those who do not recognise the Israeli State are surprise surprise the Arab League and predominantly Muslim countries! Have to say as long as Hamas occupies Gaza it will remain a road to nowhere... As well you know, Israel is occupying Gaza and the West Bank. Are you paid to go round in circles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted Friday at 03:43 PM Share Posted Friday at 03:43 PM 3 minutes ago, HeliX said: As well you know, Israel is occupying Gaza and the West Bank. Are you paid to go round in circles? What a joke that is! Israel makes a point of NOT occupying Gaza. That's how Hamas managed to drag the place down! The Jordanian administered West Bank was overrun by Israel during the Six Day War in 1967. Jordan renounced any claims to the territory in 1988. Which essentially left Israel in charge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted Friday at 06:09 PM Share Posted Friday at 06:09 PM 2 hours ago, P.K. said: What a joke that is! Israel makes a point of NOT occupying Gaza. That's how Hamas managed to drag the place down! The Jordanian administered West Bank was overrun by Israel during the Six Day War in 1967. Jordan renounced any claims to the territory in 1988. Which essentially left Israel in charge... They are literally in Gaza right now. Prior to Oct 7th they kept Gaza under water, food and electricity restrictions. Israel is occupying the West Bank, and continues to steal land and murder homeowners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted Friday at 06:25 PM Share Posted Friday at 06:25 PM https://x.com/i/status/1847188935950082452 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted Friday at 06:29 PM Share Posted Friday at 06:29 PM 20 minutes ago, HeliX said: They are literally in Gaza right now. Prior to Oct 7th they kept Gaza under water, food and electricity restrictions. Israel is occupying the West Bank, and continues to steal land and murder homeowners. I understand the Israeli reluctance to offer succour to the bunch of murderous terrorist thugs in Gaza who ended up brutally murdered their citizens during an assault on 7th October 2023. How is it you cannot? After all, it's not in the least bit difficult... The West Bank could have been Palestinian but the Arab League had other ideas. You do see the truth in that don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted Friday at 06:33 PM Share Posted Friday at 06:33 PM 2 minutes ago, P.K. said: I understand the Israeli reluctance to offer succour to the bunch of murderous terrorist thugs in Gaza who ended up brutally murdered their citizens during an assault on 7th October 2023. How is it you cannot? After all, it's not in the least bit difficult... The West Bank could have been Palestinian but the Arab League had other ideas. You do see the truth in that don't you? So they're occupying Gaza then. The West Bank is Palestinian according to the ICJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted Friday at 06:56 PM Share Posted Friday at 06:56 PM 20 minutes ago, Barlow said: https://x.com/i/status/1847188935950082452 That's an impressive amount of hypocrisy to fit into 7minutes. As a general rule I try not to engage with content that makes me fall victim to Brandolini's Law, however... Claiming Sinwar died "like a coward, cowering in the shadows" hiding, that's not quite the picture Israel's documentation of the event paints. According to Israel he was engaged in a firefight with the IDF, they blew his right hand off with a tank shell, he retreated to a building and continued to fight where the IDF withdrew and shot the building again with a tank. Claiming he "knew he was no match for soldiers" when those soldiers decided he was enough of a match with one hand remaining to necessitate firing tank shells at him is a bit silly. Claiming he targeted women, children and unarmed men when that's precisely what the IDF have been up to is also unbelievably hypocritical. As has been documented ad nauseum, one side in the conflict certainly does use human shields. Claiming the West has done "everything in it's power" to stop Israel is objectively hiliarious. She then goes on to claim there can be no justification whatsoever for killing kids, raping or burning people alive. Something of course we should all be able to agree on. Except that it is overwhelmingly Israel doing all 3 of those things. Not a mention of that, mind you. It's indicative of what really underpins most of the reporting and opinion in the West on this issue. A lot of people don't see Palestinians as human lives worth caring about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted Friday at 08:00 PM Share Posted Friday at 08:00 PM 1 hour ago, HeliX said: The West Bank is Palestinian according to the ICJ. It's an "advisory opinion" actually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted Friday at 08:09 PM Share Posted Friday at 08:09 PM Helix, the Tamil Tigers were defeated and are no longer a relevant force affecting Sri Lankan security. Ditto the MNLA in Malaysia. Ditto the Shining Path in Peru. Ditto the Nazis. Societies can be captured by totalitarian organisations which perpetuate violence. Defeating those organisations can allow peaceful alternatives to emerge. Why are you so convinced this cannot happen this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted Friday at 08:24 PM Share Posted Friday at 08:24 PM 2 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Helix, the Tamil Tigers were defeated and are no longer a relevant force affecting Sri Lankan security. Ditto the MNLA in Malaysia. Ditto the Shining Path in Peru. Ditto the Nazis. Societies can be captured by totalitarian organisations which perpetuate violence. Defeating those organisations can allow peaceful alternatives to emerge. Why are you so convinced this cannot happen this time? Er, is that really what you want to be advocating? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_genocide The MNLA were "defeated" (but later came back) by ethnic cleansing of an area and starvation of a population. The Shining Path still exist. The Nazis still exist. Hitler's armies were defeated militarily, but Nazism incredibly shamefully still exists. It is kept down by political means, not military means. Hamas, or equivalents, will continue to exist until the conditions that create them stop existing. I.e. until Israel stops murdering civilians routinely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted Friday at 09:33 PM Share Posted Friday at 09:33 PM Hamas, Hezbollah et al will continue to exist as long as Israel exists, regardless of killing of civilians on either side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted Friday at 09:39 PM Share Posted Friday at 09:39 PM 5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Hamas, Hezbollah et al will continue to exist as long as Israel exists, regardless of killing of civilians on either side. Neither of them existed prior to Israeli occupation of Gaza and Lebanon respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted Friday at 09:47 PM Share Posted Friday at 09:47 PM 1 hour ago, HeliX said: Hamas, or equivalents, will continue to exist until the conditions that create them stop existing. I.e. until Israel stops murdering civilians routinely. Excuse me but this current round of blood-letting was percipitated by the Hamas assault! You know, the bad guys of a terrorist organisation dedicated to the annihilation of Israel and it's people aka murderous scum! Sure it doesn't suit your narrative but I have to say your "single state solution" demonstrated your total detachment from reality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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