P.K. Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 If I was Israeli the civilian casualties in Gaza would appear as fair enough - "You voted them in knowing what they are like - you reap what you sow...." If I was an Israeli I'd be thinking murdering these kids is a tad unfair. The IDF are deliberately targeting civilians, especially children??? Oh no, they're not, are they. It's the other lot that are doing that.... With the cost of munitions you can be sure that the IDF would strike specific targets. They'll have the odd swinger but that's the way it goes. Of course, amidst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments the fact that Hamas have bought this on their own people will be under-played somewhat. I think it's disgusting the way Hamas use their dead as a propaganda card. Firing rockets at Israel and then taking the inevitable follow-up civilian casualties is viewed as a win / win by the unscrupulous zealots of Hamas... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) So, here's a re-cap of the bullshit I've seen posted on the internet this week by Isle of Man residents: 1) The IDF deliberately kill innocent civilians, especially children (medieval blood libel, anyone?) 2) "Zionists" (Jews) rule the world and control the banks 3) Jews are not Jews but European/Khazari imposters with no middle eastern ancestry 4) Jews in Israel should be mass deported and sent to the USA 5) Jews think they're a superior master race I'm still waiting for someone to throw in a host desecration allegation or a charge of crucifying Jesus (deicide). The more things change, the more they stay the same. I am inclined to agree with Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau, a former Chief Rabbi of Israel and a Holocaust survivor, who branded anti-semitism "an international mental illness". Click here to read Rabbi Lau's words. Edited July 26, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 So, here's a re-cap of the bullshit I've seen posted on the internet this week by Isle of Man residents: 1) The IDF deliberately kill innocent civilians, especially children (medieval blood libel, anyone?) 2) "Zionists" (Jews) rule the world and control the banks 3) Jews are not Jews but European/Khazari imposters with no middle eastern ancestry 4) Jews in Israel should be mass deported and sent to the USA 5) Jews think they're a superior master race I'm still waiting for someone to throw in a host desecration allegation or a charge of crucifying Jesus (deicide). The more things change, the more they stay the same. I am inclined to agree with Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau, a former Chief Rabbi of Israel and a Holocaust survivor, who branded anti-semitism "an international mental illness". Click here to read Rabbi Lau's words. I think you've made some of that up to have a rant. You may well have read that in the past week, but not all of it on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) I think you've made some of that up to have a rant. You may well have read that in the past week, but not all of it on here. You're quite right -- about 90 % of it is on Facebook, but it's all stuff posted by Isle of Man residents. I'm impressed that a forum, where people are anonymous and could basically say anything, are showing a lot more self-restraint on this subject than people on Facebook who are not anonymous and are apparently proud for all the world to read their garbage opinions. Edited July 26, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 You're quite right -- about 90 % of it is on Facebook, but it's all stuff posted by Isle of Man residents. Actually, it's quite a testament to the maturity and intelligence of the people who visit Manx Forums. Although there are trolls and petty arguments, I'm impressed that a forum, where people are anonymous and could basically say anything, are showing a lot more self-restraint on this subject than people on Facebook who are not anonymous and are apparently proud for all the world to read their garbage opinions. For me, I find it all rather complicated and its such a giant minefield when it comes up for discussion. The two sides seems to polarise opinions, but as far as I'm concerned both sets of governments concerned are awful human beings. History and blooding minded religious views have a lot to answer for, does the average Palestinian and Israeli citizen really want to see each other dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Because playing the Holocaust Card is the easy option and a convenient way to make yourself look like the poor victim again, instead of the bloodthirsty aggressor they really are. Blood thirsty. Do the words "blood libel" mean anything to you? When my grandfather was at Auschwitz, he sneaked bread through barbed wire to a woman, probably Jewish, and, as she reached her arm for the bread, one of the German guards shot her dead. That's what I call bloodthirsty, Amadeus. That's what the Nazis did. Going into Gaza to stop terrorists firing rockets on your civilians and going out of your way to avoid civilian loss of life is neither bloodthirsty nor does it warrant calling them Nazis. Edited July 26, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I think you've made some of that up to have a rant. You may well have read that in the past week, but not all of it on here. You're quite right -- about 90 % of it is on Facebook, but it's all stuff posted by Isle of Man residents. I'm impressed that a forum, where people are anonymous and could basically say anything, are showing a lot more self-restraint on this subject than people on Facebook who are not anonymous and are apparently proud for all the world to read their garbage opinions. You are quite right, Thomas Jefferson. It is at least respectful to avoid bile and spite in the face of a humanitarian horror such as this, when we ourselves live in such peace and security. It is not helpful to inflame the discussion with holocaust references, however. The power lies hugely disproportionately on the Israeli side now, and it is the Palestinians and not the Israelis who are the real victims. It is they, after all, who have lost their country and who are now struggling for a homeland. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) It is not helpful to inflame the discussion with holocaust references, however. The power lies hugely disproportionately on the Israeli side now, and it is the Palestinians and not the Israelis who are the real victims. It is they, after all, who have lost their country and who are now struggling for a homeland. There was never an Arab state of Palestine. Palestine was a name for the geographic region, it was not the name of a national group. If you read through old newspapers, you'll find "Palestinian" was used of Jewish as well as Arab residents of the area. There was never a distinct Arab group called "Palestinians". The people we call Palestinians are just Arabs and they already have 22+ countries of their own. Meanwhile, Jews aren't even allowed to have 1 according to some of you. But go right ahead and invent history out of thin air. Welcome to 1984. Edited July 26, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The power lies hugely disproportionately on the Israeli side now, and it is the Palestinians and not the Israelis who are the real victims. It is they, after all, who have lost their country and who are now struggling for a homeland.My understanding is that the Israeli govt position is and has been that the "right to return" exists but that the practicalities would be part of a final settlement. That settlement would clearly involve an acceptance of the existence of modern Israel. Which is the sticking point for Hamas as it was for the PLO. The refusal to politically accept the existence of Israel is what prevents all other progress. And is stupid and regressive. It's a great pity that the original UN proposals were rejected by the regional govts (the Jewish side voted in favour) - leading to the 1948 war and the 'exodus'. The people living at that time in the region were badly let down by the govts of the Arab countries which invaded. But the notion of a Palestinian homeland is a first Cold War era invention. It is about personal land rights as opposed to national land rights - ie yes, some people lost their farms and villages as a result of the 1948 war - but a national people did not lose their national homeland. According to history. It's a real pity because modern Israel has much going for it and shares so much common regional culture. Israel in concert with Egypt is also on the verge of becoming a significant energy exporter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Good speech from a Rabbi at a rally in Manchester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) The man is welcome to his opinion but he's basically just another BBC-brainwashed pleb. Edited July 26, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The man is welcome to his opinion but he's basically just another BBC-brainwashed pleb. Oh the irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 Good speech from a Rabbi at a rally in Manchester. So where's the proof he is as he appears? A get up such as he is wearing can be rented from most theatrical costumiers ant those Pe'at don't look right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 He's probably the real McCoy. There is a group of ultra-orthodox called Neturei Karta who go around with "Jews against Zionism" placards. See: http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/index.cfm While I disagree with them, I do think they serve a function in hopefully reducing some of the anti-semitism which can be exacerbated by events in the Middle East. They can channel some of the hostility away from Jews in general by helping to focus it on Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 He's probably the real McCoy. There is a group of ultra-orthodox called Neturei Karta who go around with "Jews against Zionism" placards. See: http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/index.cfm While I disagree with them, I do think they serve a function in hopefully reducing some of the anti-semitism which can be exacerbated by events in the Middle East. They can channel some of the hostility away from Jews in general by helping to focus it on Israel. Good point Read Portnoys Complaint for a good expose of Jewish self - hating. See the LC or most of the CoMin for Portnoys Complaint in action within a non Jewish group. All the symptoms, but instead of self hatred, narcissism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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