Vulgarian Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The underlying reason for the conflict was in fact the settlement of Palestine. Israel was the aggressor in this conflict in as much as it began forcibly seizing land from Palestinians and from what was de jure Palestine. It's not a side issue. Complete bollocks. There was no nation called "Palestine". It was a geographic region of the British Mandate which was then turned into Israel. Israel was for the Jews, and Transjordan was for the Arabs. The Arabs got greedy and wanted it all, hence the 1948 war. You are avoiding the issue by drawing the argument into pointless semantics which is, amongst other things, why I don't argue with you, but as a point of fact I did not call Palestine a nation; I was referring to it as a region of the British Mandate, when it was known as the British Mandate of Palestine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The underlying reason for the conflict was in fact the settlement of Palestine. Israel was the aggressor in this conflict in as much as it began forcibly seizing land from Palestinians and from what was de jure Palestine. It's not a side issue. ^ this is a simplification of a much more complicated history. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel The greatest number were surely displaced as a result of the Arab - Israeli War of 1948 - which the govts of the Arab countries launched as their response to the UN proposals for a two state division. At the same time and in the years which followed many Jewish people were also expelled from their homes in the Arab countries. It's the same. If there had been peace in the region over the past 70 years then perhaps these family land disputes would have been addressed by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 If the history, the real and verifiable history of the establishment of the modern Israeli state is examined, it is evident that any land theft was committed by a minority who when identified were prosecuted by the Israeli government. There were issues where owners of land that was leased to farmers, often for generations, sold the land to Jewish people who were immigrating to their homeland, probably in the expectation that the neighbouring Arab states would soon destroy Israel (as they tried the day after recognition by the UN) and so they sellers would be able to pocket the money, get his land back, and continue to take rent as before. Obviously the families who had been renting their farms were less than impressed by having what they saw as their homes having been sold from beneath them, and no doubt the sellers denied having sold the land but those are the facts and there are many recorded examples. Like so many things what one sees on the surface, and what is promoted as being one thing is often very different when stones are turned over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Much of my understanding of the Arab Israeli situation comes from reading and listening to Shlomo Ben-Ami - Israeli foreign minister under Ehud Barak.This book Scars of war, wounds of peace : the Israeli-Arab tragedy gives a very different narrative than those of Spook and TJ and I feel he as a historian, diplomat and Israeli politician is able to provide a lot more nuance and understanding than their simplicities. The book was reviewed by the Economist here - if anyone knows of any other reviews I'd appreciate reading them! he's talking with Norman Finkelstein: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Try going back to the time that the development of Israel was being based on Jewish and Israeli Arab joint cooperation until the neighbouring Arab states decided that they didn't want a democratic alternative society succeeding in their midst. That was when, as they say, the fight started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 When was that Spook? The Arab population in Mandate Palestine rose in revolt seeking some form of self determination and in opposition to Jewish migration in 1936. None of the neighbouring Arab States existed then nor did Yasser Araffat's PLO so blaming them for creating these aspirations is anachronistic and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 When was that Spook? The Arab population in Mandate Palestine rose in revolt seeking some form of self determination and in opposition to Jewish migration in 1936. None of the neighbouring Arab States existed then nor did Yasser Araffat's PLO so blaming them for creating these aspirations is anachronistic and wrong. That was fall out from the dissolution of the Ottoman empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 HEBRON MASSACRE.....look it up, Jew-hating douche bags! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Much anti-Israeli sentiment is very similar to anti-Semitism (and also to much conspiracy thinking in general) in that it has to do with a tendency to identify single causes which can be blamed for a disparate range of wider problems. So, for example, just as people once blamed the Jews for all sorts of social and economic issues, today many want to identify Israel and the existence of Israel as the root cause of so many of the world’s other problems - Islamic extremism, terrorism, wider conflicts etc. Clearly not everyone campaigning against Israel is an anti-Semite. But they frequently stand alongside and in support of many who are. Those protesting against Israel and calling for boycotts end up effectively supporting Hamas unless they specifically oppose them. Hamas are not inspirational freedom fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I see those inspirational Hamas freedom fighters have just executed, in public and in front of a mosque, a number of Palestinian civilians, including women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 HEBRON MASSACRE.....look it up, Jew-hating douche bags! Calm down dear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 HEBRON MASSACRE.....look it up, Jew-hating douche bags! Calm down dear! Quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Bosnian Moslems recruited the Nazi SS byYasser Arafat's 'Uncle http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/recruited.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 I see those inspirational Hamas freedom fighters have just executed, in public and in front of a mosque, a number of Palestinian civilians, including women. And, in typical Jew-hater "logic", the "critics of Israel" AKA Jew-hating morons will blame Israel for the whole thing. Have a good Shabbos! I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDruid-3X3 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 This is very interesting.... A good comparison between Muslims and Jews.... read all the way to the bottom. *A Jewish Boycott* A short time ago, Iran's Supreme Leader Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei urged the Muslim World to boycott anything and everything that originates with the Jewish people. In response, Meyer M. Treinkman, a pharmacist, out of the kindness of his heart, offered to assist them in their boycott as follows: "Any Muslim who has Syphilis must not be cured by Salvarsan discovered by a Jew, Dr. Ehrlich. He should not even try to find out whether he has Syphilis, because the Wasserman Test is the discovery of a Jew. If a Muslim suspects that he has Gonorrhea, he must not seek diagnosis, because he will be using the method of a Jew named Neissner. "A Muslim who has heart disease must not use Digitalis, a discovery by a Jew, Ludwig Traube. Should he suffer with a toothache, he must not use Novocaine, a discovery of the Jews, Widal and Weil. If a Muslim has Diabetes, he must not use Insulin, the result of research by Minkowsky, a Jew. If one has a headache, he must shun Pyramidon and Antypyrin, due to the Jews, Spiro and Ellege. Muslims with convulsions must put up with them because it was a Jew, Oscar Leibreich, who proposed the use of Chloral Hydrate. Arabs must do likewise with their psychic ailments because Freud, father of psychoanalysis, was a Jew. Should a Muslim child get Diphtheria, he must refrain from the „Schick" reaction which was invented by the Jew, Bella Schick. "Muslims should be ready to die in great numbers and must not permit treatment of ear and brain damage, work of Jewish Nobel Prize winner, Robert Baram. They should continue to die or remain crippled by Infantile Paralysis because the discoverer of the anti-polio vaccine is a Jew, Jonas Salk. "Muslims must refuse to use Streptomycin and continue to die of Tuberculosis because a Jew, Zalman Waxman, invented the wonder drug against this killing disease. Muslim doctors must discard all discoveries and improvements by dermatologist Judas Sehn Benedict, or the lung specialist, Frawnkel, and of many other world renowned Jewish scientists and medical experts. "In short, good and loyal Muslims properly and fittingly should remain afflicted with Syphilis, Gonorrhea, Heart Disease, Headaches, Typhus, Diabetes, Mental Disorders, Polio Convulsions and Tuberculosis and be proud to obey the Islamic boycott." Oh, and by the way, don't call for a doctor on your cell phone because the cell phone was invented in Israel by a Jewish engineer. Meanwhile I ask, what medical contributions to the world have the Muslims made?" The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000; that is ONE BILLION TWO HUNDRED MILLION or 20% of the world's population. They have received the following Nobel Prizes: Literature: 1988 - Najib Mahfooz Peace: 1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat 1990 - Elias James Corey 1994 - Yaser Arafat: 1999 - Ahmed Zewai Economics: (zero) Physics: (zero) Medicine: 1960 - Peter Brian Medawar 1998 - Ferid Mourad TOTAL: 7 SEVEN The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000; that is FOURTEEN MILLION or about 0.02% of the world's population. They have received the following Nobel Prizes: Literature: 1910 - Paul Heyse 1927 - Henri Bergson 1958 - Boris Pasternak 1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon 1966 - Nelly Sachs 1976 - Saul Bellow 1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer 1981 - Elias Canetti 1987 - Joseph Brodsky 1991 - Nadine Gordimer World Peace: 1911 - Alfred Fried 1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser 1968 - Rene Cassin 1973 - Henry Kissinger 1978 - Menachem Begin 1986 - Elie Wiesel 1994 - Shimon Peres 1994 - Yitzhak Rabin Physics: 1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer 1906 - Henri Moissan 1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson 1908 - Gabriel Lippmann 1910 - Otto Wallach 1915 - Richard Willstaetter 1918 - Fritz Haber 1921 - Albert Einstein 1922 - Niels Bohr 1925 - James Franck 1925 - Gustav Hertz 1943 - Gustav Stern 1943 - George Charles de Hevesy 1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi 1952 - Felix Bloch 1954 - Max Born 1958 - Igor Tamm 1959 - Emilio Segre 1960 - Donald A. Glaser 1961 - Robert Hofstadter 1961 - Melvin Calvin 1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau 1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz 1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman 1965 - Julian Schwinger 1969 - Murray Gell-Mann 1971 - Dennis Gabor 1972 - William Howard Stein 1973 - Brian David Josephson 1975 - Benjamin Mottleson 1976 - Burton Richter 1977 - Ilya Prigogine 1978 - Arno Allan Penzias 1978 - Peter L Kapitza 1979 - Stephen Weinberg 1979 - Sheldon Glashow 1979 - Herbert Charles Brown 1980 - Paul Berg 1980 - Walter Gilbert 1981 - Roald Hoffmann 1982 - Aaron Klug 1985 - Albert A. Hauptman 1985 - Jerome Karle 1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach 1988 - Robert Huber 1988 - Leon Lederman 1988 - Melvin Schwartz 1988 - Jack Steinberger 1989 - Sidney Altman 1990 - Jerome Friedman 1992 - Rudolph Marcus 1995 - Martin Perl 2000 - Alan J. Heeger Economics: 1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson 1971 - Simon Kuznets 1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow 1975 - Leonid Kantorovich 1976 - Milton Friedman 1978 - Herbert A. Simon 1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein 1985 - Franco Modigliani 1987 - Robert M. Solow 1990 - Harry Markowitz 1990 - Merton Miller 1992 - Gary Becker 1993 - Robert Fogel Medicine: 1908 - Elie Metchnikoff 1908 - Paul Erlich 1914 - Robert Barany 1922 - Otto Meyerhof 1930 - Karl Landsteiner 1931 - Otto Warburg 1936 - Otto Loewi 1944 - Joseph Erlanger 1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser 1945 - Ernst Boris Chain 1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller 1950 - Tadeus Reichstein 1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman 1953 - Hans Krebs 1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann 1958 - Joshua Lederberg 1959 - Arthur Kornberg 1964 - Konrad Bloch 1965 - Francois Jacob 1965 - Andre Lwoff 1967 - George Wald 1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg 1969 - Salvador Luria 1970 - Julius Axelrod 1970 - Sir Bernard Katz 1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman 1975 - Howard Martin Temin 1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg 1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow 1978 - Daniel Nathans 1980 - Baruj Benacerraf 1984 - Cesar Milstein 1985 - Michael Stuart Brown 1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein 1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini] 1988 - Gertrude Elion 1989 - Harold Varmus 1991 - Erwin Neher 1991 - Bert Sakmann 1993 - Richard J. Roberts 1993 - Phillip Sharp 1994 - Alfred Gilman 1995 - Edward B. Lewis 1996- Lu RoseIacovino TOTAL: 129! The Jews are NOT promoting brainwashing children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non-Muslims. The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics, or blow themselves up in German restaurants. There is NOT one single Jew who has destroyed a church. There is NOT a single Jew who protests by killing people. The Jews don't traffic slaves, nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels. Perhaps the world's Muslims should consider investing more in standard education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems. Muslims must ask 'what can they do for humankind' before they demand that humankind respects them. Regardless of your feelings about the crisis between Israel and the Palestinians and Arab neighbors, even if you believe there is more culpability on Israel 's part, the following two sentences really say it all: 'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel." Benjamin Netanyahu: General Eisenhower warned us. It is a matter of history that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead. He did this because he said in words to this effect: 'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses - because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened' Recently, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it. It is now more than 65 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. Now, more than ever, with Iran, among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets. This e-mail is intended to reach 400 million people. Be a link in the memorial chain and help distribute this around the world. How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Center 'NEVER HAPPENED' because it offends some Muslim in the United States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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