Anti-Semitism in Britain: prejudice becoming normalised

[spook]

But people LIKE to hate Jews.

 

After all, they've always been told how awful they are so they must be.

 

People LIKE to like muslims, after all it's just a tiny minority who are the fanatics who do the terrible things isn't it?

 

As for those shameful Nobel awards, that only shows how typically greedy those horrible Jews are, working so hard to make sure they get so many of them.

 

And Arafat, he tried so hard to bring peace by initiating and running such a good campaign to bring peace to Palestine, if he had only been allowed to continue but those Jews fought against being killed or pushed out of their internationally recognised homeland.

 

By the way, for those fools who think in the way that I've shown, I was (trying) to be cynical. It's not a view that I take for a single moment but I am absolutely certain it will be exceedingly close to the way that a great deal of people do think,.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Meanwhile, in Germany:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg3_Q1Uj58o

[Roger Smelly]

I think you have to really go back to before the first world war to really understand the hatred that Germans had for the Jewish people, and the whole history of Palestine.

 

Me personally I think the problem with the history of anti-Semitism only seems to start with WW2.

 

I think the crimes against the Jewish people during that time was beyond evil, the trouble is now we are seeing massacres on a daily occurrence and the sad thing is its the innocent people as usual getting killed.

 

What does not sit well with me is the way the Israeli army attacks the women and children, we have all seen the images of whole families wiped out for nothing.

 

I surest that you read about the formation of Palestine to get a clear picture of anti Semitism.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Anti-Jewish hatred goes straight back to ancient times but bloomed under the Early Church Fathers. Muslim hatred of Jews was simply an extension of early Christian hatred of Jews. Again, it was a case of replacement theology and it goes back to the early 7th century, not 1948. Nazi antisemitism was rooted more than anything in the association of Jews with the left-wing socialist and communist movements of the time. There were also economic factors.

[spook]

Muslim hatred of Jews comes about when Mohammad was given the bums rush when he demanded to be the leader of the Jewish tribe in Medina but was ridiculed because of his schoolboy howlers he was making by totally misunderstanding the Jewish religion.

 

Like any spoiled brat he didn't like to be told no.

[Chinahand]

You can't have a discussion of Western anti-antisemitism without including Luther. The petty bourgeoisie prejudice against Jews has a very protestant Saxon edge to it as they came to their pews to listen to Pastors immersed in Luther's writings.

Wikipedia gives a flavour:

In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth." They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine." The synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..." He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them".

[CrossRoss]

In [date]1543 a [Great Man, politicised bastard] Luther published On the [current badguys] Jews and Their [propaganda] Lies in which he says that the [badguys] Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth." They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine." The [badguyhouse] synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..." He argues that their [badguy houses] synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, [badguy priests] rabbis forbidden to preach, [badguys persecuted] homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness [more badguy persecution], afforded no legal protection, and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time [badguys demonised and punished]. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them"[it is not bad to be bad to badguys because they are bad].

You can make the long winter nights fly by by inserting the following as badguys

 

Catholics

Protestants

al ciada

Islamic State militants

Hamas

Yids

Commies

scrounging benefits cheats

MPs

witches

drug dealers

"police"

paedos

snitches

agents provocateurs

trolls

MF grammar pedants

anti-semites

anti-anti-semites

anti-anti-anti-semites

(anti)^4-semites .......ad nauseum

 

 

Personally I like this version especially the defiled bride, incorrigible whore and evil slut bit

 

In 2014 Crossross published On the MF grammar pedants and Their excessive grammarising in which he says that the MF grammar pedants are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth." They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine." The Manx Forums are a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..." He argues that their Manx Forums and schools be set on the path of righeousness, their prayer books destroyed, MF grammar nazis mods forbidden to preach, called names, and their property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness , afforded no legal protection, and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their being got very drunk and pushed in the direction of a crappy tattoo parlour. "We are at fault in not tattooing them with crap tattoos"

[Lxxx]

Muslim hatred of Jews comes about when Mohammad was given the bums rush when he demanded to be the leader of the Jewish tribe in Medina but was ridiculed because of his schoolboy howlers he was making by totally misunderstanding the Jewish religion.

 

Like any spoiled brat he didn't like to be told no.

 

Apparently.

[Thomas Jefferson]

You can't have a discussion of Western anti-antisemitism without including Luther. The petty bourgeoisie prejudice against Jews has a very protestant Saxon edge to it as they came to their pews to listen to Pastors immersed in Luther's writings.

 

And you can't have a discussion of Luther without including, among other texts, That Jesus Christ Was Born a Jew (1523) in which he articulated a defence of the Jewish people, blamed the Roman Catholic Church for their failure to become Christian, ridiculed the blood libels and host desecration allegations, and sought to engage with the Jews as potential converts to what he saw as the restored church of Jesus Christ. And I quote:

 

They [the Catholic Church] have dealt with the Jews as if they were dogs rather than human beings; they have done little else than deride them and seize their property. When they baptize them they show them nothing of Christian doctrine or life, but only subject them to popishness and monkery. When the Jews then see that Judaism has such strong support in Scripture, and that Christianity has become a mere babble without reliance on Scripture, how can they possibly compose themselves and become right good Christians? I have myself heard from pious baptized Jews that if they had not in our day heard the gospel they would have remained Jews under the cloak of Christianity for the rest of their days. For they acknowledge that they have never yet heard anything about Christ from those who baptized and taught them.

I hope that if one deals in a kindly way with the Jews and instructs them carefully from Holy Scripture, many of them will become genuine Christians and turn again to the faith of their fathers, the prophets and patriarchs. They will only be frightened further away from it if their Judaism is so utterly rejected that nothing is allowed to remain, and they are treated only with arrogance and scorn. If the apostles, who also were Jews, had dealt with us Gentiles as we Gentiles deal with the Jews, there would never have been a Christian among the Gentiles. Since they dealt with us Gentiles in such brotherly fashion, we in our turn ought to treat the Jews in a brotherly manner in order that we might convert some of them. For even we ourselves are not yet all very far along, not to speak of having arrived.

When we are inclined to boast of our position we should remember that we are but Gentiles, while the Jews are of the lineage of Christ. We are aliens and in-laws; they are blood relatives, cousins, and brothers of our Lord. Therefore, if one is to boast of flesh and blood, the Jews are actually nearer to Christ than we are, as St. Paul says in Romans 9[:5]. God has also demonstrated this by his acts, for to no nation among the Gentiles has he granted so high an honor as he has to the Jews. For from among the Gentiles there have been raised up no patriarchs, no apostles, no prophets, indeed, very few genuine Christians either. And although the gospel has been proclaimed to all the world, yet He committed the Holy Scriptures, that is, the law and the prophets, to no nation except the Jews, as Paul says in Romans 3[:2] and Psalm 147[:19-20], "He declares his word to Jacob, his statutes and ordinances to Israel. He has not dealt thus with any other nation; nor revealed his ordinances to them."

[Source]

 

Luther was a very complex figure and you are trying to shove him into a box ("anti-semite") in which he simply cannot be contained. To suggest that he had a part in causing anti-semitism is ridiculous. He did more than any Christian figure had done in the preceding 1,000 years to combat anti-semitism. Christian anti-semitism declined because of Luther and the Reformation.

[Chinahand]

TJ - whether Luther was or was not an anti-Semite isn't really my point - it is the use of his writings (and let's be clear his views and writings on the Jewish populations in the German Principalities changed markedly as they failed to convert to his new church) by anti-Semites.

I also really dispute your view that he, or his legacy, reduced anti-Semitism - his tolerance to the Jews was early in his career when he had less influence than later when his attitudes hardened markedly.

As a powerful figure he recommended:

... what he called his "final warning" against the Jews.[21] The main point of this short work is that authorities who could expel the Jews from their lands should do so if they would not convert to Christianity. Otherwise, Luther indicated, such authorities would make themselves "partners in another's sins".[22]

Luther began by saying,

We want to deal with them in a Christian manner now. Offer them the Christian faith that they would accept the Messiah, who is even their cousin and has been born of their flesh and blood; and is rightly Abraham’s Seed, of which they boast. Even so, I am concerned [that] Jewish blood may no longer become watery and wild. First of all, you should propose to them that they be converted to the Messiah and allow themselves to be baptized, that one may see that this is a serious matter to them. If not, then we would not permit them [to live among us], for Christ commands us to be baptized and believe in Him, even though we cannot now believe so strongly as we should, God is still patient with us.[23]

...

Luther continued, "However, if they are converted, abandon their usury, and receive Christ, then we will willingly regard them our brothers. Otherwise, nothing will come out of it, for they do it to excess."[23] Luther followed this with accusations,

They are our public enemies. They do not stop blaspheming our Lord Christ, calling the Virgin Mary a whore, Christ, a bastard, and us changelings or abortions (Mahlkälber: “meal calves”). If they could kill us all, they would gladly do it. They do it often, especially those who pose as physicians—though sometimes they help—for the devil helps to finish it in the end. They can also practice medicine as in French Switzerland. They administer poison to someone from which he could die in an hour, a month, a year, ten or twenty years. They are able to practice this art.[23]

He then said,

Yet, we will show them Christian love and pray for them that they may be converted to receive the Lord, whom they should honor properly before us. Whoever will not do this is no doubt a malicious Jew, who will not stop blaspheming Christ, draining you dry, and, if he can, killing [you].[23]

Many many historians directly link the anti-semitic writing of Luther (and are you really going to argue what I've quoted isn't anti-Semitic?) into the chain of prejudice against the Jewish people from ancient times to the current day.

[Thomas Jefferson]

TJ - whether Luther was or was not an anti-Semite isn't really my point - it is the use of his writings (and let's be clear his views and writings on the Jewish populations in the German Principalities changed markedly as they failed to convert to his new church) by anti-Semites.

 

I also really dispute your view that he, or his legacy, reduced anti-Semitism - his tolerance to the Jews was early in his career when he had less influence than later when his attitudes hardened markedly.

 

Many many historians directly link the anti-semitic writing of Luther (and are you really going to argue what I've quoted isn't anti-Semitic?) into the chain of prejudice against the Jewish people from ancient times to the current day.

 

I don't think you can unequivocally call it anti-semitic. These polemics were aimed primarily against the heresy of pelagianism within Christianity. Luther was up against pelagianism in the Catholic Church and also in some of the newer protestant sects which were popping up and taking on Jewish practices like sabbatarianism. Luther spoke quite vulgarly about everyone, including himself, because he quite literally regarded all humanity as worthless and devoid of merit, incapable of being good or deserving God's love -- hence his doctrine of salvation by grace alone, through faith. You might say preachers quoted him, but then they also quote the New Testament and its vile insults against Jews.

[CrossRoss]

I do believe you even bored the fuck out of Chinahand with that last one.

 

At least Luther used some vulgar phrases which kept up the pique of the otherwise disinterested.