What's Cameron going to do now

[Thomas Jefferson]

 

Who are the working class in the south east voting for? Have they been brainwashed into voting Tory, or are they just not voting? It's hard to believe they could be outnumbered, as even the most well-to-do areas require a majority of the workforce to be made up of the great unwashed. Labour need to step it up a bit and stop putting forward spineless toffs to lead them.

 

They're voting as they always have. Conservatives. They always will do, as will all of the other people that don't have to work for a living. Here in Essex, any one who works votes for Tory. We live in a very well to do county with very little unemployment.

 

The Labour voters in the north however.......................

 

Stat!

 

 

lol, well, to be fair, I voted for the Conservatives in the last general election as well; and would probably do so again in the next one. When it comes to the working people, I think the two parties are both a bunch of Tories, so might as well vote based on other issues.

[Donald Trumps]

Is there a 'blue collar' vote any more?

 

If Cameron loses the indyref he will be out of office within a month

 

There'll be a melt down in English politics which I hope won't be to the advantage of Farage

 

The only answer I can see is to bring back David Miliband from New York

 

 

[spook]

I sincerely wish there was a Margaret Thatcher character ready to step in and sort out the mess that the UK is in.

[The Border Terrier]

 

 

 

Cameron is chairing another Cobra meeting after this latest news, should he send in the jets like America and bomb the Isis.

Send the SAS in to really fuck them over Bravo Two Zero style ... Then post a couple of clips on You Tube of the SAS carving them up and leave it at that as a warning. This is hand to hand psychological warfare being fought and broadcast on Twitter and You Tube - sending planes in to carpet bomb anything that moves isn't the answer. They want a really nasty team to go in there and rip the fuck out of all of them.

Bravo Two Zero style? Have you read it? It's an account of a failed SAS patrol in Iraq, and a failed attempt by that patrol to extricate themselves from hostile territory, ending in the death or capture of most of the patrol.

Yes but clearly I meant a similar SAS desert mission but with a good outcome rather than that outcome. As JW says would Cameron gamble on anything with the sweaty socks to deal with in the next few weeks? If the Scottish issue goes wrong the taste to go for ISIS will be even less. You can't help thinking that 5 minutes after the Jocks vote on Independence they will announce an oil and natural gas deal with Russia and that Putin has been stoking the Independence debate all along.

 

 

>Yes but clearly I meant a similar SAS desert mission...

 

It wasn't clear at all...but no matter.

 

Operation Mikado..tut, tut, tut.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mikado

 

No pun intended, but I don't think the SAS are all they're cracked up to be.

 

And you think they can single handedley solve the ISIS problem?

 

Why not join up, I think you'd dovetail beautifully into their 'system'.

 

TBT.

[guzzi]

Very interesting, TBT. No military operation can be guaranteed to succeed. A special forces operation is inherently high-risk and could quite easily result in more hostages, as Bravo Two Zero and the example from the Falklands War demonstrated.

 

But above all, what would be the point? I suspect a brutal killing that was actually publicised in the manner that IS themselves publicise their brutality would only serve to radicalise more Muslims in Europe and America..

 

The fact is that the League of Nations imposed borders are artificial and we shouldn't be surprised that there are groups who are prepared to fight to change them. It is not enough just to use military force to try to prevent IS holding ground. What is required is a new settlement, between all the interest groups in the region. The objective would be to create new nations with boundaries and governments that actually reflect ethnic or cultural groupings. For example, a Kurdish state. Those states, unlike Iraq, would have the will and the coherence to actually defend themselves against the likes of IS.

[The Border Terrier]

Very interesting, TBT. No military operation can be guaranteed to succeed. A special forces operation is inherently high-risk and could quite easily result in more hostages, as Bravo Two Zero and the example from the Falklands War demonstrated.

 

But above all, what would be the point? I suspect a brutal killing that was actually publicised in the manner that IS themselves publicise their brutality would only serve to radicalise more Muslims in Europe and America..

 

The fact is that the League of Nations imposed borders are artificial and we shouldn't be surprised that there are groups who are prepared to fight to change them. It is not enough just to use military force to try to prevent IS holding ground. What is required is a new settlement, between all the interest groups in the region. The objective would be to create new nations with boundaries and governments that actually reflect ethnic or cultural groupings. For example, a Kurdish state. Those states, unlike Iraq, would have the will and the coherence to actually defend themselves against the likes of IS.

 

>It is not enough just to use military force to try to prevent IS holding ground.

 

How true, 2 Gulf Wars illustrate that. Despite what Mr President asserted.

 

 

Fact is, if the SAS destroy ISIS (humour me on that one), another disciplined bunch of jihadi's with 'Gaddafi style' support will pop up in their place, only this time in Europe.

 

The precedent has already been set with the slaying of Lee Rigby. It's not too difficult to ramp up this style of attack, and near impossible to prevent. And think of all the lawyers tapping into the Legal Aid budget!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lee_Rigby

 

Alternately, as some advocate, you could 'Nuke' the area...and watch fuel prices head into the stratosphere.

 

TBT.

[MikeW]

 

I'm a firm believer that sometimes you have to sink to the level of your enemies to make them understand that they don't have the sole rights to being inhuman.

You personally? Or the guys you order to do it for you?

 

It's a war crime...the very reason the US and UK are getting involved. The same reason we didn't gas Germans for the evil they did.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

[guzzi]

Mike W, yes the bombing of Dresden is held by many to be an allied war-crime, and of course the US and UK should observe the Geneva Convention in any military dealings with IS. The point is that the Allies afforded the perpetrators of the Nazi atrocities due process of law and not summary and public execution.

[NeverAgain]

 

 

Fact is, if the SAS destroy ISIS (humour me on that one), another disciplined bunch of jihadi's with 'Gaddafi style' support will pop up in their place, only this time in Europe.

 

So what's the other option? sit back and watch these extremists commit murder all over the world? 23% of the worlds population is Muslim, a figure that's rising fast. Just how many of these are extremists?

 

 

[guzzi]

 

 

 

Fact is, if the SAS destroy ISIS (humour me on that one), another disciplined bunch of jihadi's with 'Gaddafi style' support will pop up in their place, only this time in Europe.

 

So what's the other option? sit back and watch these extremists commit murder all over the world? 23% of the worlds population is Muslim, a figure that's rising fast. Just how many of these are extremists?

 

 

 

 

http://www.gallup.com/press/110521/Moderate-vs-Extremist-Views-Muslim-World.aspx

 

About 7% hold extremist views according to Gallup, defined as an opinion that the 9/11 attacks were justified and and having a hatred of the US. Of those, clearly only a minority would actually translate those views into action.

 

We do face a serious threat, and obviously , 'the West' has to contain and as far as possible prevent violent acts by extremists. However, it is even more important to drive down the proportion of Muslims who hold extremist views, and you don't do that through military means. Rather, you have to promote solutions to the issues in the middle east that cause conflict.

 

Whatever we do, though, sadly the issue is here to stay as even a tiny proportion of muslims world-wide translates into a significant cadre of people capable of creating murder and mayhem.

[The Border Terrier]

 

 

 

 

Fact is, if the SAS destroy ISIS (humour me on that one), another disciplined bunch of jihadi's with 'Gaddafi style' support will pop up in their place, only this time in Europe.

 

So what's the other option? sit back and watch these extremists commit murder all over the world? 23% of the worlds population is Muslim, a figure that's rising fast. Just how many of these are extremists?

 

 

 

 

http://www.gallup.com/press/110521/Moderate-vs-Extremist-Views-Muslim-World.aspx

 

About 7% hold extremist views according to Gallup, defined as an opinion that the 9/11 attacks were justified and and having a hatred of the US. Of those, clearly only a minority would actually translate those views into action.

 

We do face a serious threat, and obviously , 'the West' has to contain and as far as possible prevent violent acts by extremists. However, it is even more important to drive down the proportion of Muslims who hold extremist views, and you don't do that through military means. Rather, you have to promote solutions to the issues in the middle east that cause conflict.

 

Whatever we do, though, sadly the issue is here to stay as even a tiny proportion of muslims world-wide translates into a significant cadre of people capable of creating murder and mayhem.

 

 

>sadly the issue is here to stay as even a tiny proportion of muslims world-wide translates into a significant cadre of people capable of creating murder and mayhem.

 

A good point, but the Catholics have done untold damage by covering up their child abuse scandals.

 

No religion is unique in that respect as the CoE have had their problems, just that the Muslims aren't flavour of the month due to a few fanatics.

 

To put things into perspective, 'Jihadi John' probably still hasn't exceeded the wrongs executed (no pun intended) by Dr Harold Shipman.

 

I take your point though Guzzi, there's a few crackerjacks out there misbehaving.

 

TBT.

[The Border Terrier]

 

 

 

Fact is, if the SAS destroy ISIS (humour me on that one), another disciplined bunch of jihadi's with 'Gaddafi style' support will pop up in their place, only this time in Europe.

 

So what's the other option? sit back and watch these extremists commit murder all over the world? 23% of the worlds population is Muslim, a figure that's rising fast. Just how many of these are extremists?

 

 

 

 

Perhaps Muslims themselves should be (in part) tasked with solving the problem/s. If only a small % are extremists, then the majority % should do the right thing and dissuade them.

 

But...

 

We should all 'do the right thing' shouldn't we? Acknowledging the likes of Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, Iran Air 655, American Airlines 77, Baghdad Airstrike 12 July 2007 and the aptly named Crazy Horse one eight...there are many problems on all sides.

 

And let's face it, the British haven't solved the problems in Northern Ireland yet...so what chance they can solve the problems of the Middle East?

 

But to claim indignance over 'Jihadi John's' activities just seems so naive considering the actions of the British/Americans.

 

What better motivation for JJ to behead Westerners than to watch the following?

 

 

http://www.collateralmurder.com/en/transcript.html

 

Personally I think it's just humans being human. Insolvable.

 

TBT.

[Tarne]

Parliament gave approval by 524 votes to 43 (a massive majority of 481) for Britain to join the US-led coalition in the Middle East.

Finally - they should have done something years ago. An unstable Middle East is a good for business Middle East!

[P.K.]

 

 

 

 

Fact is, if the SAS destroy ISIS (humour me on that one), another disciplined bunch of jihadi's with 'Gaddafi style' support will pop up in their place, only this time in Europe.

 

So what's the other option? sit back and watch these extremists commit murder all over the world? 23% of the worlds population is Muslim, a figure that's rising fast. Just how many of these are extremists?

 

 

 

 

Perhaps Muslims themselves should be (in part) tasked with solving the problem/s. If only a small % are extremists, then the majority % should do the right thing and dissuade them.

 

But...

 

We should all 'do the right thing' shouldn't we? Acknowledging the likes of Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, Iran Air 655, American Airlines 77, Baghdad Airstrike 12 July 2007 and the aptly named Crazy Horse one eight...there are many problems on all sides.

 

And let's face it, the British haven't solved the problems in Northern Ireland yet...so what chance they can solve the problems of the Middle East?

 

But to claim indignance over 'Jihadi John's' activities just seems so naive considering the actions of the British/Americans.

 

What better motivation for JJ to behead Westerners than to watch the following?

 

 

http://www.collateralmurder.com/en/transcript.html

 

Personally I think it's just humans being human. Insolvable.

 

TBT.

 

http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/39180-killing-and-battle/

[spook]

The so called tiny minority of muslims is the fruiting body.

 

Bombing the Islam State will help not in the least. Instead a drive should now be started to push back on all the concessions that have been made to Islam in the west and the UK in particular and an end put to the Blair beloved multiculturalism nonsense.

 

In any case bombs can't kill ideas.

 

A good start would be the absolute ban on the burgua and any and all dress associated with islam, follow this by an absolute ban on erecting any more minarets (as Switzerland has done) and an absolute ban on ritual slaughter of animals or the importation of meat that has been killed in any ritualistic way.

 

Then stop state funding of all faith schools, Christian included, it'll be collateral damage that will have to be accepted, and a ban on all madrassas.

 

Islam has declared war on the non-Islamic world, we would be seven kinds of fool not to realise it. Now we should react accordingly and at least stop making life easy for its followers to live in OUR world.

 

What is worth noting is that the recent study conducted by the U of London has shown that Muslims who are not the recent immigrants are much more likely to become more devout rather than integrate into the British population. This dreadful situation in which we have an enemy in our midst that we are actually supporting and making concession after concession to has to be recognised, confronted, and subjugated to OUR society or shown the door.