the stinking enigma Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 dont want to get all daily mail on anybody but will being classed disabled open up a whole new range of benefits? in a similar way to getting your child diagnosed adhd? main point is , true disability, however it happen is irreversible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 main point is , true disability, however it happen is irreversible Really? Is there some reason why temporary disabilities don't count? People temporarily paralysed by stroke or injury, for example. Discrimination is ok in those cases? My point is that making distinctions based on external factors about what constitutes disability is dangerous and unfair. If you are severely mentally or physically restricted in some way you are disabled. These external factors are political, prejudicial, irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Of course there are complex reasons behind why one person is obese and the next is not, but the fundamental cause, and the fundamental solution is very simple (conceptually, if not in terms of achieving), and this is the difference between obesity and all the other examples of disability that have been cited. What's wrong with a caring society caring for the obese by providing the information to enable them to help themselves? Another point not yet raised is that if obesity, with a defined BMI, is classified as a disability, there will be those that see it as a target to get to, in order to get the blue badge and the extra benefits - and if this seems too far fetched, it isn't. I've heard of cases in the UK where an obese person, wanting a gastric banding operation, has been told he doesn't qualify as he's not heavy enough, and therefore resolves to put a few stone on in order to meet the criteria for surgery. Madness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Of course there are complex reasons behind why one person is obese and the next is not, but the fundamental cause, and the fundamental solution is very simple (conceptually, if not in terms of achieving), and this is the difference between obesity and all the other examples of disability that have been cited. What's wrong with a caring society caring for the obese by providing the information to enable them to help themselves? You are right about obesity being a complex condition that can have many causes, but treating it is not always as simple as you make out. It does not always come down to a simple matter of employing willpower to eat less and exercise more. Examples: people with mobility issues, mental health issues (compulsive behaviour, or autism, e.g.), endocrine problems, etc. It can't always simply be "dieted away". And what are we to do in the meanwhile, while people are still suffering mobility problems due to obesity? Allow discrimination in provision of services, employment opportunities, access? This is surely not a massive problem anyway, if you will excuse the pun. What does it come down to but some oversized chairs, and waddling access? Only "reasonable" adjustments need to be made, and only for businesses over a certain size. If you suck at your job you're still going to get fired no matter what your size. The touble is when this is used as cause for spurious claims for compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 its an insult to real disabled people because they have no control over their disability whereas obese/overweight people can miraculously cure themselves by eating less /more healthily and exercising You're right - you can't grow a new arm or leg, or get out of a wheelchair. You can, however, decide to eat less and stop being such a fat lazy fucker. What about people who claim diabetes makes them obese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 The simple question to ask is: Have you ever seen a big-boned skeleton? How many obese people do you think have the faulty genes or glandular problem that they claim they have, whilst neglecting to mention the 3 pizzas for tea, washed down with a bottle of diet coke, which makes it all better. With a couple of mars bars for desert. I don't think people should be allowed special treatment because of their weight, unless it's a genuine medical cause. i.e The fat Danish bloke was unable to do the job, therefore he was fired, that's fair. I can't hoof huge bags of concrete or building supplies around all day, doesn't mean I'm going to sue because the job doesn't suit me. A paraplegic may not be disposed to being a firefighter, but many find jobs within the scope of their physical ability if they are able to work. Not everyone is cut out to do every job, and we should accept that, not whine and blame someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorian dad Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 'Tis the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Let me declare an interest. I'm obese. I'm generally fit, as well as fat, current fracture problems apart. I've also read the judgment. It doesnt say, as is alleged in the media, that obese = disability. It says that in certain circumstances disabilities caused by obesity can be considered in law to be covered by equality/ disability discrimination legislation. The moralising and outrage is all well and good. But it gets nowhere. It's just a reflection of EU bad, dark age thinking good, mentality, in terms of the predictable reaction. How is a disability or ill health brought on by eating too much and exercising too little any different to others brought on by life style choices, such as smoking, drinking, recreational drugs, driving unsafely all of which can cause3 catastrophic illness and disability and often are choice and in many cases reversible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgain Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 What are others' opinions? Is this political correctness gone mad, or should people have the right to get and stay obese and expect society to bale them out when it gets too much? Some people get so obese they get to the point of no return, where exercise becomes impossible due to knackered joints etc They therefore become 'disabled', because they are no longer able to do the things normal 'able bodied' people can do, yes it is self inflicted but I'm sure they'll regret every moment they've become labelled as 'disabled'. Its much the same with smokers, once a smoker gets cancer they regret ever smoking a single cigarette, but its too late the damage has already been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Let me declare an interest. I'm obese. I'm generally fit, as well as fat, current fracture problems apart. I've also read the judgment. It doesnt say, as is alleged in the media, that obese = disability. It says that in certain circumstances disabilities caused by obesity can be considered in law to be covered by equality/ disability discrimination legislation. The moralising and outrage is all well and good. But it gets nowhere. It's just a reflection of EU bad, dark age thinking good, mentality, in terms of the predictable reaction. How is a disability or ill health brought on by eating too much and exercising too little any different to others brought on by life style choices, such as smoking, drinking, recreational drugs, driving unsafely all of which can cause3 catastrophic illness and disability and often are choice and in many cases reversible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 If lung cancer could be cured by smoking a bit less and exercising a bit more, then Im pretty sure most people with lung cancer would do that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Another point not yet raised is that if obesity, with a defined BMI, is classified as a disability, there will be those that see it as a target to get to, in order to get the blue badge and the extra benefits - and if this seems too far fetched, it isn't. I've heard of cases in the UK where an obese person, wanting a gastric banding operation, has been told he doesn't qualify as he's not heavy enough, and therefore resolves to put a few stone on in order to meet the criteria for surgery. Madness! The BBC report clearly states that obesity will only be classified as a disability if there is a long term adverse impact on an individual. It seems to me that it will be treated like most disability cases and judged on a case by case basis (certainly in employment anyway). If a person is obese, as defined by their BMI, but are able to attend to do normal day to day activities then they will not be classified as disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sick Moon Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I say ban private health, treat everyone for everything on a needs basis, and provide adequate investment for the National Health to do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Assuming that's a serious point Moon, someone once said (paraphrasing) that the NHS had the ability , if left unchecked, to completely consume the country's GDP. Obese people need help and encouragement rather than being vilified but it is generally a reversible condition. Even joints damaged by obesity will work better when not so loaded. Given that it is ultimately reversible then any perceived disability can only be temporary and is mostly in control of the sufferer. In the vast majority of cases it is therefore unlike most other disabilites which are non-reversible. To describe it as a life choice may occasionally be too simplistic but I think is as good a general description as you can get. So no, in the vast majority of cases I don't agree this is a disability. When it rarely is, I'd say another disability of some sort is the real cause. Anyone with an associated condition leading to obesity should have that criterion used to determine rights rather than the obesity by-product itself. I've been overweight since a teenager and four years ago decided to do something about it. I am no longer overweight. I don't particularly enjoy the two days a week limited to 500 kcal, 5 alcohol free days a week or the 4 miles I walk a day to achieve this but it needs to be done. Acceptance of why you have a problem rather than finding blame elsewhere (and saying I can't) is a very necessary step to sorting an issue out. This ruling could be even better for lawyers than human rights! Edit : spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I say ban private health, treat everyone for everything on a needs basis, and provide adequate investment for the National Health to do just that. You're probably winding us up but I think it's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.