Chinahand Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The evil that was the Holocaust is almost incomprehensible for me. The cold, deliberate, planned murder of people on an industrial scale is chilling. The loss of moral values and sense of humanity it requires is a chilling warning of just how easily everything civilization values can be lost. The commemorations at Auschwitz must be tough for the survivors - to go back there must bring back so many memories almost too hard to bear. I hope they will feel a confidence that the civilized world will never allow such a thing to happen again ... but in my heart of hearts I worry that isn't so. To have that doubt in your mind, when you have been a victim and a witness to such horrors must weigh on your heart. We must not forget, and must strive to ensure people can never again treat people in such a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meir Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The best way to ensure it never happens again is to support Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Over 50 years later not many lessons learned http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/2008/08/concentration-camps-in-bosnia.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It IS happening all the time around the world. Not exactly like Auschwitz, but genocide nonetheless. Man's inhumanity to man is standard human behaviour. We just happen to have been lucky to have lived in a time and an area of the world that has enjoyed a long period of peace and relative harmony. Do not make the mistake of regarding our experience as the natural way of things or think that it will last forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I can understand it happening because human beings tend to go along with the crowd and feelings of discrimination and hatred are not far below the surface even in so-called civilised societies. Just look at the attitudes that have emerged following a few burglaries on the Isle of Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I wonder how the prisoners kept any level of sanity after witnessing the horrors there. I listened to one lady saying that she lost her parents, her siblings, her cousins, aunts and uncles. Not one of her relatives survived this atrocity and she survived alone. So tragic. The depth of depravity that allowed this is surely beyond most people's comprehension. Unfortunately brutality, cruelty and wickedness is alive and spreading globally and we read about it every day. We are so sheltered and blessed on our little island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meir Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 “As a young girl, I lived through the Holocaust in the Netherlands, and later in the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in Germany. At the age of 12, I returned to the Netherlands with my mother and two older siblings. My father did not survive Bergen-Belsen. It was clear to me that I would move to Israel, and at the age of twenty I did just that. I met and married Aki, who is originally from South Africa, we settled in Kibbutz Tzora, where we still live today, and we started to build our family. Our five children all served in the IDF and I was proud of every one of them, especially Ran, who was a pilot in the Air Force. He was grievously killed in a helicopter accident. Our children raised beautiful families, and now, five of our grandchildren serve in the IDF. It is a special feeling, knowing that there is continuity. They are my personal victory!” -Mirjam Lapid-Andriesse, 81, Holocaust Survivor To read more about Mirjam’s story: http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2015/01/27/personal-victory-story-holocaust-survivor/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Many years ago, as a school-leaver, I learned a little tailoring from a master known as Jack Harms. He lived on the Island with his wife, in Onchan. He survived Auschwitz. The first day I met him, he rolled up he sleeve and said, ''You know what this is...?'' In a dungeon of a work-room, beneath Strand Street, we sat sewing endless seams, he would chain-smoke pungent roll-ups of his favourite Dutch tobacco. Occasionally, he would recall his experiences of the camp. His words would flow, his Dutch-accented voice low and controlled, sometimes tinged with anger yet always with a kind of resigned, forlorn sorrow as he told of the ordeal. He'd be on a roll, interrupting only to admonish me for lengthening my stitches or shoddy buttoning. In one tragic example he told of a cold, hunger-pained (always) morning in the camp, when, in a moment of rare light-heartedness, he and a group of friends (all skilled; a silversmith, shoe-maker, photographer, Jack the tailor and other trades so probably spared destruction through their craftsmanship) decided to surprise one whose birthday it was. Before they went out on work detail, the hut celebrated the moment and had managed to scramble up some ingredients to bake a small cake and brew a little coffee. They'd naturally become very close; friendships forged in mutual desperation. On returning to the hut that evening, out of 8, only he and another remained, the others having been taken and gassed, including the birthday boy. He said that after this episode, he'd from then on make a conscious effort to not get too close to new arrivals in an attempt to shield himself from further loss. He also had a lasting guilt over his tailoring ''beautiful'' uniforms for officers of the camp, knowing that if he didn't produce the finest work he'd probably die. He'd recount many such tales, at times tears would roll down his gnarled cheeks (pock-marked and a nose tattoed with powder-burns after a laughing, grinning guard fired a pistol in his face, turning it away at the last moment) and I would sit in quiet embarrassment, unknowing, except for it being time to brew him a strong, sweet, cup of tea. And, no fuss, he'd spark up another gasper and carry on. Only in later-life reflection did I have some idea of the gravity and senseless-ness of what was happening on a daily basis and the protracted suffering of many like old Jack. ''Life was cheap, T****...'' ''Yes Jack''. ''It's a bit dearer now!" Never did get what he meant. An un-imaginable, in-humanity, it will never be forgotten, one reason being, it has to be said, is that the Holocaust has become 'big-business' but this cannot be not a bad thing. Hasn't really taught human-kind anything though. Lessons not learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There were holocausts and genocides before, and there have been since. What marked out the Nazis was the industrial large scale and ruthlessly organised planning. Yes we should learn, but I fear we won't. Remember it was not only Jews, there were 5 million others, gypsies, Jehovah's witnesses, politicians, lgb, mentally and physically disabled, religious leaders, dissenters. I've visited Auschwitz Birkenau. It's chilling. Its sad. Sad because of what happened there, sad because of how poorly it's presented and sad for the propaganda use it is put to. There are buildings in which each group is commemorated, but not one for the gay victims. Catholic Poland has written them out. 100,000 gay men were transported to camps. They have never been compensated. They were only apologised to in 2002. The film video presentation dates back to communism ( or it did when I visited). According to the commentary It wasn't the fault of just the Nazis. The Brits and Americans knew and could have stopped it. ( I'm sure they knew - not quite so sure what they could have done) We've forgotten the mass genocide and transfer of people's in Europe post WW2, even more we've forgotten the mass forced moves of people's in Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria in 1918 - 1922. As humans we seem to like to be xenophobic and scapegoat the different. It's happening now in the west about Muslims, the poor, single mums, all sorts. We need to learn we have more in common than separates us and that we need to get on together. Minorities need to learn that the problems they face are similar, predicated by the same fears. They need to work together rather than suffer in isolation. It's why diversity and inclusion is so very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It's shocking really, I think I'd be so outraged I would take myself off to where ever and tell them all about their behaviour....I don't do it though. You can't make people behave, I'm grateful its not us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 As humans we seem to like to be xenophobic and scapegoat the different. It's happening now in the west about Muslims, the poor, single mums, all sorts. We need to learn we have more in common than separates us and that we need to get on together. Minorities need to learn that the problems they face are similar, predicated by the same fears. They need to work together rather than suffer in isolation. It's why diversity and inclusion is so very important. No it isn't. It's wishing for the moon which is mainstream nowadays. The dangerous thing is not accepting the reality of human nature and trying to impose impossible solutions based on the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Wooley you bang this drum a lot and I'm no convinced this is the right venue for it. This is a thread on the holocaust - one set of people "othering" others so much that systematically killing them is not seen as a big deal. This is something to be resisted, stood up to, confronted - it is wrong and if people are going to try to justify such murder or turn a blind eye to it then they need to be told that. Such dehumanization is wrong and the reply to it is a call for tolerance and acceptance of difference. You seem to think tolerance and acceptance of difference are unrealistic and will always be taken advantage. Diversity does have risks, but it also does have great advantages - and yes must be based on a contradiction - a tolerant society must be intolerance of attempts to dehumanize; to create an enemy within using the advantages of such a society to work for its demise. Woolley I hope we can agree that dehumanization, "othering" and genocide are wrong; and that we have to be intolerant towards people who value these attitudes. Acceptance of diversity and politics as an inclusive conversation, protected from those who wish to impose their views violently by a strong defence* - I support these ideals and think they have been the main driver of creating wealth in the world, allowing Koreans to trade with Brits, and Bangladeshis with Chinese, and Singaporeans with Americans, and allowing all these people to live together in the great multicultural cities of this earth - Los Angelese, London, New York, Hong Kong, Singapore. I don't think we are wishing for the moon to aspire to tolerance - and for all the difficulties in a diverse society that is far better than a monoglot one imposing uniform views. And admitting there are problems is no reason not to condemn loudly and clearly the wrongness of genocide. Debating the difficulties of multiculturalism isn't a reason to ignore the moral wrong that happened in Auschwitz 70 years ago. *- ah the contradiction here is rich in irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I watched a programme on Auschwitz last night and the impact it had on the lives of those who survived. There were a couple of things that will stick with me. The first was that a woman (Jewish) who survived Auschwitz decided to move to what was then Palestine and live in a kibbutz. The kibbutz had been established in the 1920's/30's and many of the residents were hostile towards this woman. It was reported that they told her not to talk about her experiences and that they thought the Jew's in the camps had given in to easily. It was really sad to be honest. The second was a man who was about eleven when he was in Auschwitz. Whilst there a German soldier took him to one side and told him that he did not like to see the children beaten no matter what they did or who they were. I think the soldier tried to protect him from some of the horrors of the camp. The man said that it was like a spark in the dark and that he held onto those sparks. The stories and these people and how they dealt with the horrors of the camps and holocaust should never be forgotten. We need to learn that no one group of people as the right to systematically exterminate another group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 @ Chinahand. I agree that dehumanization and man's inhumanity to man is wrong. Of course it is. Who wouldn't agree? However, what people say they believe and how they act in given circumstances, especially in extremis, are frequently two different things. But all the handwringing in the world from liberals will not change human nature. The world is how it is and not how we would like it to be. I saw a Jewish lady on television the other night who declared herself disgusted that Auschwitz is still there for all of these people to wander around. She spoke eloquently and I have to say she made a very good case for the place to be razed to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 We need to learn that no one group of people as the right to systematically exterminate another group. We don't need to learn this. Everyone in the world knows that it's wrong. It will not stop it happening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.