Manx National Hemorrhage Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 So I'll take that as you can't. Actually I can think of a couple of things that were invented / discovered that are down to nothing other than islam, the device to establish the direction to pray in order to pray towards mecca for one. So there's a free starter, how many can YOU come up with? No, I can. I just don't see how appealing to your own ignorance is a valid argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx National Hemorrhage Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I take the view that I tolerate other peoples faiths as long as it's not obligatory for me to take part , The trouble with the "nothing to do with me" philosophy is that there are groups which will take your stance as sufficient to justify your death. The philosophy of "live and let live" and "do unto others" is about mutual toleration, not pacifism. With the philosophy comes the duty to stand up for other people's right to live and let live, and so yes intolerant forms of Islam or Christianity or any other religion or any other ideology should be kept in check and not allowed to push their beliefs on others. In the case of Islam, what we need to do is proactively support certain factions who share our values and help them against those who don't. At the moment, the western powers and their friends the Saudis are proactively supporting Sunni Wahabism which is behind most of the extremism and fundamentalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 NO islamic jurisprudence shares Western values. Islam is totally incompatible with the Ideology of The West. Mohammadans can never integrate with Western civilisation. They can coexist for a time, generations even, but that us all unless it in a society that is an Islamic theocracey in whjch point People of the Book can be tolerated providing they adopt shar'ia, pay a special tax, and understand that they are subjugated by Mohammadans in society. Tolerated note, not recognised as equals. The Ummah, Dar ul - Islam is one end of a continuum, Dar ul Haarb the other, but ALL intermediate points can only be transitional leading up to the Mohammadan dictate that there must be jihad until the world becomes Dar ul - Islam. If you want to practice taqiyya either as a troll or trying to push a particular school of jurisprudence for some bizarre reason at least let's get down and dirty with facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx National Hemorrhage Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 NO islamic jurisprudence shares Western values. There is no such thing as a lump-all index of "western values", as amply demonstrated by the fact that you and I share different values. You keep talking about western this and western that. You have a very provincial attitude. Islam is totally incompatible with the Ideology of The West. Mohammadans can never integrate with Western civilisation. They can coexist for a time, generations even, but that us all unless it in a society that is an Islamic theocracey in whjch point People of the Book can be tolerated providing they adopt shar'ia, pay a special tax, and understand that they are subjugated by Mohammadans in society. What 'ideology of the west'? There is no such thing. If you mean enlightenment values, then they are just as much at odds with your own religion as they are with Islam. The things you mention only apply to a country ruled by sharia law. A country can be Muslim and not ruled by sharia law. Islam can be reconciled with a secular democracy, as was the case in Iran before western interference. The Ummah, Dar ul - Islam is one end of a continuum, Dar ul Haarb the other, but ALL intermediate points can only be transitional leading up to the Mohammadan dictate that there must be jihad until the world becomes Dar ul - Islam. What are you rambling on about? The Ummah merely refers to the collective nation of Muslims across the globe. it is a term no different to Christendom or Jewry. Dar al-Salam means abode of peace, which means a place where Islam is practiced. It's to be expected that Muslims would aspire to spread Islam as widely as possible, just as Christians aspire to spread the Gospel as widely as possible. The thing is, most normal people are able to differentiate between real life and fantastical eschatology. It is something they may acknowledge as a part of their religion, but it has no relevance to their day-to-day living. If you want to practice taqiyya either as a troll or trying to push a particular school of jurisprudence for some bizarre reason at least let's get down and dirty with facts. Taqiyya? lol, I am one of Islam's biggest critics. But I respect the right of Muslims to be treated with decency and in a way I would in turn wish to be treated. Not every Muslim is out to get you, blow you up, or a fifth column to push sharia law on you. Just as not every Christian is a promoter of Christian dominionism or the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. Open up your horizons and stop being so shallow minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 You're out of your depth. For one thing there is no such thing as Shar'ia law. There are punishments for people who depart from 'the Path to the Water' and must pay the penalty. In fact the word Islam means submitting to the foul ranting of Mohhamad as memorialised in the qur'ran - he claimed that the qur'ran was disclosed to him but that's garbage, he made it up himself, and in so doing one follows shar'ia. As I wrote, you're way out of your depth and in this case, to mix metaphors, your trying to punch way above your weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx National Hemorrhage Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 You're out of your depth. Your'e right. I'm out of my league with your depth of bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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