ScotsAlan Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 He did not actually do anything. He said he would do it. He said it, he put it in writing, he researched where to find soldiers, and then he went out carrying weapons. You're missing out lots by saying it was just a "thought". And it wasn't done in a fit of passion like your example. Totaly agree. My example was different, it was a crime of passion. Not pre meditated. Now, this guy had a plan. No doubt of that at all. A jury found him guilty. But he was not caught red handed. If he had been caught in an intellegence based operation, running towards a victim with a knife.... yeah. 22 years. No problem with that. It's not the conviction that troubles me. It the sentence. The guys that murdered my mate done 7 years. They should have got 22 years. This guy with his plan should have got 7 years. Or 2 years. Whatever. The sentence is for the crime. Now, if you guys cant see the difference between an actual crime and a planed crime, and think one equals the other... then you guys are possibly living in a police state. The Police follow the laws Government set of course. Here is the thing.I live in a police state. I live in an oppressed society. I look at the UK from the outside. And I see western nations trying to copy the opressed state I live in. Vague laws, potental crimes given 22 year "removal from society" sentances. But you don't get it. Westen democracies are emulating the repressive states. For some reason, they are no longer working for the freedom of people, and the freedom of speach. They are brainwashing. Wow. Epic rant. I enjoyed that. In the meantime. I will fight the racists and the supremists. Where ever they come from. But only on MF of course, because I can do that from my armchair :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Attempted murder is an actual crime. It's not a new thing that our oppressive governments are brainwashing us with. From wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_murder "In English criminal law, attempted murder is the crime of more than merely preparing to commit unlawful killing and at the same time having a specific intention to cause the death of human being under the Queen's Peace. The phrase "more than merely preparatory" is specified by the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 to denote the fact that preparation for a crime by itself does not constitute an "attempted crime".In England and Wales, as an "attempt", attempted murder is an offence under section 1(1) of the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 and is an indictable offence which carries a maximum penalty of life imprisonment (the same as the mandatory sentence for murder)... The mens rea (Latin for the "guilty mind") for murder includes an intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm where there is virtual certainty of death resulting, whereas attempted murder depends on an intention to kill, and an overt act towards the homicide. Attempted murder is only the planning of a murder and acts taken towards it, not the actual killing, which is the murder." I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I assumed that's what he was charged with, but BBC actually says (in an older article) that he was "charged with preparing an act of terrorism". Not sure of the differences there, but this appears that if it was committed pre-9/11 he would/could have been charged with attempted murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Attempted murder is an actual crime. It's not a new thing that our oppressive governments are brainwashing us with. From wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_murder "In English criminal law, attempted murder is the crime of more than merely preparing to commit unlawful killing and at the same time having a specific intention to cause the death of human being under the Queen's Peace. The phrase "more than merely preparatory" is specified by the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 to denote the fact that preparation for a crime by itself does not constitute an "attempted crime". In England and Wales, as an "attempt", attempted murder is an offence under section 1(1) of the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 and is an indictable offence which carries a maximum penalty of life imprisonment (the same as the mandatory sentence for murder)... The mens rea (Latin for the "guilty mind") for murder includes an intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm where there is virtual certainty of death resulting, whereas attempted murder depends on an intention to kill, and an overt act towards the homicide. Attempted murder is only the planning of a murder and acts taken towards it, not the actual killing, which is the murder." I There seems to be differnt sentancing guidlines. Attempted murder, you stab a guy, get done for ABH and attemped murder.. a few years. But....I suspect if it is defined as a terrorist act, the maximum sentence might be longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Terrorism and the support of terrorism that takes place in the UK IMO should result in a mandatory full term life sentence, but not within the normal prison population, instead in a penal colony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Terrorism and the support of terrorism that takes place in the UK IMO should result in a mandatory full term life sentence, but not within the normal prison population, instead in a penal colony. A penal colony sounds good. Six months in Ramsey would sort them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Border Terrier Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Attempted murder is an actual crime. It's not a new thing that our oppressive governments are brainwashing us with. From wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_murder "In English criminal law, attempted murder is the crime of more than merely preparing to commit unlawful killing and at the same time having a specific intention to cause the death of human being under the Queen's Peace. The phrase "more than merely preparatory" is specified by the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 to denote the fact that preparation for a crime by itself does not constitute an "attempted crime". In England and Wales, as an "attempt", attempted murder is an offence under section 1(1) of the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 and is an indictable offence which carries a maximum penalty of life imprisonment (the same as the mandatory sentence for murder)... The mens rea (Latin for the "guilty mind") for murder includes an intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm where there is virtual certainty of death resulting, whereas attempted murder depends on an intention to kill, and an overt act towards the homicide. Attempted murder is only the planning of a murder and acts taken towards it, not the actual killing, which is the murder." I >Attempted murder is an actual crime. Agreed. As is 'going equipped...' 22 years for such an offence? Sharing a cell with Buster would be my suggestion; if that doesn't rehabilitate nothing would. TBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 I assumed that's what he was charged with, but BBC actually says (in an older article) that he was "charged with preparing an act of terrorism". Not sure of the differences there, but this appears that if it was committed pre-9/11 he would/could have been charged with attempted murder. Mr S. You can say in a few words what I cant say in a thousand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree with you Alan. However I think the mistake you are making is thinking of a Western Democracy as a free or fair society and that anything less is an oppressed state. Western democracy is sold to us as the ultimate in freedom but it is anything but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 A London teen has been sentenced to 22 years for planing a terrorist act. Was he smoothing an act then? http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31987242 First thing, I don't doubt the UK law system. He has been found guilty, so therefore I have to agree with the verdict. Guilty as charged. What he planned to do was terrible, pointless, stupid and just plain evil. But 22 years? When no crime was actually commited in terms of causing harm to others. Wow. Back in the 90's one of my friends was murdered. He was beaten to death by a couple of thugs for 20 quid and a casio watch. They were both sentenced to life, they were out in seven years. They done something. They killed a guy. But 22 years for saying you will do something, but not actually doing it? Oh come on. The justice system is blameless. They follow the law set by the Government. But goodness me, 22 years for saying you will do something. Imagine if they applied that law on the IOM on black eye Friday.... the jail would be full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 After what happened with lee rigby hopefully the sentence might be a warning to others. If someone plans to cut off anothers head then I have no issue with them going to jail for a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 IMO the title of this thread is totally wrong. What is involved is not a 'thought crime' at all. It is engaging in the preparation to commit an act of terrorism made worse by it being the intended murder of a member of the forces who protect the whole of the British Isles. The sentence is lenient. If he walks the line he will be back on the streets in half that time. IMO The VERY MINIMUM he should have been given is a life term, preferably full life and as I wrote in a penal colony and not a conventional prison, but at least a life term with a minimum tariff of twenty two years. It would have ensured that if he ever was let to walk the streets he would be on licence and so subject to recall if he ever once stepped out of line. Much as I regret this I do believe that the death penalty should be re-introduced for all terrorists and those supporting acts of terror. This is not 'normal' crime, and so should not be treated in the same way. It is committing acts of war against us by irregular combatants who even under Geneva Conventions terms of conventional warfare permits the execution of those so engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Calling attempted murder something that sounds much less threatening (like a thought crime) is a well honed first step to defending someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Calling attempted murder something that sounds much less threatening (like a thought crime) is a well honed first step to defending someone. I cant argue with that. A very good point. But, I have said that he has been found guilty, so guilty he is. My point is about the length of the sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 my two pennorth...............if one intends to commit a crime it is the same as committing it IMO.........'cos it is only chance, (usually), that the crime wasn't actually committed.............e.g. you didn't get there, the blow wasn't hard enough, you were caught prior to, etc.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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