Flat Earth?

[HeliX]

I haven't popped in here for about a month but I'm amazed this topic is still going. Are people really still debating whether the earth is flat?

"Debating" is generous.

[woolley]

 

I haven't popped in here for about a month but I'm amazed this topic is still going. Are people really still debating whether the earth is flat?

"Debating" is generous.

 

It's more like not throwing something out because you're afraid you might miss it when it's gone.

[Chinahand]

I have to admit, I've really enjoyed looking at the pictures of the IOM taken from the UK and trying to work out which peak is which on them.

 

Here's one from the famous St. Ormes Head:

 

 

Then the one from Winter Hill from the Youtube video:

 

 

And finally this beautiful one from the coast at Rossall Beach

 

 

So can people name the peaks?

 

I think I can and found this really brilliant site which produces a panorama from any particular point.

 

It's been most useful to help identify where is where:

 

Here's a panorama from in the direction of Blackpool:

 

 

And this one is from the direction of the Great Orme:

 

 

But both panoramas were made much closer to the Island so the majority of the hills were still above the horizon.

 

As you get further away the horizon rises up the Island.

 

So - what are the peaks in the photos?

 

How much of the Island is below the horizon in each photo?

 

The panoramas identifie South Barrule, Snaefell and North Barrule.

 

Are these Hills visible? And how much of them is below the horizon?

 

Care to give it a go Gerry?

 

 

[P.K.]

The 'dipping distance' calculation will give the answer.

To get it right you need to know the height of the OP and the three peaks above MSL plus the distance between them.

 

I could do it but CBA.

[gerrydandridge]

Very nice pictures Chinahand.

 

According to google maps, winter hill is 145.23km from snaefell and the height of Snaefell is 620m above sea level. Winter Hill is 455m above sea level..

 

Using the way you calculate for light refraction and not the 8 x mile squared rule we get....(please double check for me)

 

3.86 x (620^.5 + 455^.5) = 178KM = distance to the horizon...

 

 

So from 145.23 km away and with these heights 620m for Snaefell and 455m for Winter Hill we should only be able to see the top 266m of the island ..Is this the way you do it?

 

 

If my calculations are correct we should be missing the bottom 620-266=354m of the island to the horizon....

 

How much of the Island do you think we can see above the horizon,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chinahand]

Well Gerry, what do you think?

 

You shouldn't be able to see nearly as much of the Island as you seem to be able to.

 

So, what is going on.

 

Is it magic?

 

Is there a flat earth hidden from us by a massive conspiracy;

 

Or is it a very well known and studied phenomenon of atmospheric refraction?

 

But ignoring all that, look at the pictures and try to identify the hills.

 

Try looking at the panoramas and drawing a line at a certain height on them to show a horizon - can you make them match the photos?

[P.K.]

Trick Question though Mr C.

 

Because the difference in distances the three peaks are from the OP means that the amount you can see is going to vary.

 

From Blackpool I make it 63.5 miles, 65 miles and 69.6 miles.

 

Plus the amount of atmospheric refraction will surely vary with air pressure?

[Chinahand]

Obviously PK - three pictures, three lines, I'd put them onto three panoramas.

 

So Gerry do you think these pictures show parts of the IOM below a horizon or not?

[gerrydandridge]

Chinahand: we have taken refraction into account and you say we shouldn't see this much land..so what is it then.

 

Why don't you just lay your hand on the table and tell me what you think for a change, you know what I think the reason for this is, and its not the "magic option".

 

Each of the photos are from different perspective and distances,,

 

We have taken the phenomena of light refraction into account, giving a theoretical viewable portion of the island, if we hadn't then we would barely see the tip of Snaefell at these distances, let alone what we see in these images.

 

 

Chinahand: I sense an mood of confidence in you so, if you have discovered a proof that shows we are missing much of the island below the curve of the horizon, then please let me in on it and stop the suspense.

 

 

"So Gerry do you think these pictures show parts of the IOM below a horizon or not?" nothing that perspective wouldn't account for...Unless of course you have new evidence that is contrary to this.

[Chinahand]

Gerry, can you explain with a diagram what you mean by perspective.

 

[]

[]

[]

[]

[]

 

Here's a 5 m long stick - can you show me how the angles between the 1st m and 2nd m, the 2nd m and 3rd m, the 3rd m and 4th m, and 4th m and 5th m change with perspective as you move away from the stick on a flat plain?

 

Your Victorian drawing from earlier in this thread aren't accurate.

[Chinahand]

Oh, and is anyone going to try to name the hills? Which one is Snaefell? Which one North Barrule?

[Bobbie Bobster]

Oh, and is anyone going to try to name the hills?

I choose Brendan, Popinjay and Climie Fissure.

[Chinahand]

Here's the panorama showing the Island (with the vertical scale exaggerated) with most of the Island above the horizon.

I've then reduced the vertical scale to make it more realistic and looked at the bumps of the hills and how they match up.

The vertical scale is out a bit, but this photo has the most of the Island above the horizon of the three photos, but still most of it is below it. It would have been nice to see a slightly zoomed out photo with South Barrule, but having tried these photos myself on Port Erin beach I know you loose contrast as you zoom out.

 

This one is right at the limit - not surprising really as it is taken close to sea level. It is a pretty classic example of looming with the sun silhouetting the Island with most of it under the horizon.

 

This is pretty similar to the Rossall Beach view, but a tighter shot through a big telephoto lens.

 

So, are these photos evidence of a flat earth, or a horizon?

 

[P.K.]

Hmmm

 

As Eratosthenes figured out the world was round in 240 BC, then remarkably figured out it's circumference with astonishing accuracy, I think we can be be fairly confident that the world is a sphere.

[gerrydandridge]

P.K.: As for Eratosthenes, see below an example of his experiment on a flat plane, what was the big assumption in his experiment, perhaps a circle, if the sun is overhead in one position and at the same time casts a shadow for another position, this works for both a circle or a flat...

 

This experiment does not prove a round earth at all. it just proves people's unwillingness to question what they are told. The story of Eratosthenes is probably as real as the story of Jesus, its strange how it took the rest 1700 years to catch up with a select group of scientists that the earth was not flat.