Chinahand Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Gerry, I've been politely asking you to do some really simple calculations to work out the height of the noon day sun. At Castletown today latitude 54.0727°N the noon day sun will be 40.9 degrees above the horizon. (Just to put things into perspective - refraction when measuring things at there very worst conditions close to the horizon cause a shift in position of about 0.5 degrees - at an altitude of 40.9 degrees refraction effects will be less than 0.1 degrees) Given this fact what do you think the maximum sun height above the horizon will be for Greenwich 51.4826°N. And Alexandria - 31.2001°N. Can you use your flat earth model to work these out? Just set out your assumptions - the sun is x km away from the flat earth, Greenwich is so much further south than Castletown etc. Can I also ask Gerry. What is a sunset? If you believe in a flat earth, please could you simply explain in plain English what you think is happening when the sun sets? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I believe that Gerry has little choice but to accept that the Earth is a spheroid based on Chinahands convincing argument. On the subject of sunset, in April I was travelling back to Gatwick from Northern Spain. I checked the sunset time on my phone to see whether I could expect any views from my window seat. In the event, Easyjet's plane has accrued the usual delays during the day, so that by the time we took off, in twilight, the time of local sunset had passed. The sun was below the horizon. But how pleasant to discover that at 37,000 feet the sun was shining bright, a hands width above the horizon. During the flight we were treated to a lovely sunset over Biscay, the second I had observed that day. I wonder how that could be explained in Gerry's purported flat-Earth model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I believe that Gerry has little choice but to accept that the Earth is a spheroid based on Chinahands convincing argument. On the subject of sunset, in April I was travelling back to Gatwick from Northern Spain. I checked the sunset time on my phone to see whether I could expect any views from my window seat. In the event, Easyjet's plane has accrued the usual delays during the day, so that by the time we took off, in twilight, the time of local sunset had passed. The sun was below the horizon. But how pleasant to discover that at 37,000 feet the sun was shining bright, a hands width above the horizon. During the flight we were treated to a lovely sunset over Biscay, the second I had observed that day. I wonder how that could be explained in Gerry's purported flat-Earth model? Let me try and guess what Gerry would say..... They weren't really windows you were looking out off, they were TV screens showing what 'they' wnated you to see. The plane never really flew anywhere - they just taxied into a big hanger and shook it about abit to simulate turbulance. While this was going on, a team of scene-shifters from Nasa moved everything around outside the hange - replacing signs and buildings to make the place look like home. They then shook the plane a bit more to simulate landing, and taxied back out of the hanger. Lo and behold, it seemed that you had actually flown from one place to another. It's the sort of thing 'they' do all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 @Guzzi, hee hee ... you are thinking exactly along the lines I am. I found this and thought it was a brilliant test of the fact the Earth is a sphere. You don't need an aircraft to see a double sunset. If you are sitting on the beach at sea level and watch the sun's disc descend until the very last part of the disc disappears under the horizon and then leap up to your feet the top of the disc will appear again and 10 or so seconds later disappear a second time. I'm waiting for Gerry to explain what he thinks a sunset is, but I suspect his conception will not be able to account for this effect - we will wait and see hey! Crickets, crickets. What is amazing about this is that you can use the time it takes to disappear again to estimate the size of the world. The linked paper gives all the details and tries to account for all the issues with refraction etc, though in a rather truncated manner. So next time I get to Port Erin beach not only will I be able to watch the Mournes emerge from the horizon as I walk up and down the bank, I'll be able to do some timings and estimate the size of our world. Now, Gerry, care to explain how you get to see a double sunset on a flat Earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Chianhand, This is a good point and I thank you for it as I see the flat earthers have skipped over this part in their models, nothing accounts for the suns elevation in the sky through observation and location (however I am skeptical on the accuracy of the current maps we have to work with also), all models are somewhat 2D, so after some thought I have come up with a sun moving as in my crappy picture below.. Brief Explanation: The middle line is the equator, the other 2 circles are the tropic lines. so to account for the observed angle difference I think it is perfectly plausible to have the sun also moving on a z axis, i.e. up and down, so the sun is highest over the equator and lowest on each tropic, it is quite possible to model a curve between the 3 lines that accounts for the angle of the suns elevation in various locations and assuming the height of the sun at the inner tropic (June 21st) to be 3100 miles directly above the inner tropic line.. I am not speaking for other flat earthers here, this is a Gerry idea in its infancy and hopefully wont turn out to be idiotic, so may have some initial teething problems but I figure what the heck, these intellectual geniuses have had hundreds of years to perfect their model so far. As for your question : "If you believe in a flat earth, please could you simply explain in plain English what you think is happening when the sun sets" My answer: The sun never sets on a flat earth, it simply goes out of sight as it follows the east/west line on the plane, the sun gets smaller and then appears to go over the horizon, the opposite happens on a sunrise, it just gets closer and larger in size..perspective is the rule here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Gerry, Have you ever watched a sunrise? What you are saying is palpable nonsense. Go and look. The sun's disc interacts with the horizon. You will clearly get a disc with one part above and one part below. Putting up pictures of the midnight sun from above the Arctic circle is frankly bizarre. That is not how a sunset happens outside the arctic circle. Go and look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Gerry, what is the difference between a sunset North of the Arctic circle and one South of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Chinahand: You may consider it bizarre but I put up the sun in the arctic to show the circle it makes and also how the sun gets smaller as it leaves our perceptive... Surely its proof that the sun goes around in a circle and is tightly ringing the centre of the pole, never going down, however as the sun moves out further, as the poles winter approaches it will indeed appear to go below the horizon due to its distance. its a perfectly good example of the suns motions around us I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 There is no evidence of this phenomena in the Antarctic, only the Arctic...They wont let independent observers travel there to witness this on the Winter Solstice as we should get the same effect on the South Pole as we get on the North Pole on the opposite solstice, if it were indeed a Globe, surely you can see this as a bit odd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 @ gerrydandridge: It's still nonsense, but full marks for stickability and the work you put into it. Fair play to you on that. Impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Crickets!! Ha ha for Gerry. Thought about how to use your model to calculate the height of the sun at noon yet Gerry. Can you do a little bit of basic trig and work out what your model will give for the noonday sun for Greenwich and Alexandria for yesterday. Do you understand that as you have the height of the noonday sun for Castletown you can use that to calibrate your model? _______________________________________________ Gerry, just go and watch a sunset ... they happen every day. Go on a clear evening - the sun doesn't change size in the sky, it doesn't progressively get dimmer and dimmer as it gets further and further away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngSQngfOjmY Its light gets abruptly cut off by the horizon. Sit down and watch the sun sink and as it finally disappears leap up again or move a little bit higher up. The sun will re-emerge. The light levels the sun shines on you will increase by 1000 fold just by moving yourself a few metres higher up. Why? - because when it was just below the horizon its light couldn't directly reach you - it was below the horizon - all you could see was light scattered off the sky and the clouds*. When you stand up suddenly a part of the sun isn't blocked by the horizon anymore and its direct light shines on you. It is vastly brighter. How do you explain this given your fainter and fainter, further and further away model? I've been politely asking you for days to use your model of the earth and the sun to work out what the noonday sun, or the sunset look like. Your model doesn't explain what reality is actually like. Oh and Gerry - could you also explain a moon set? Please note neither the sun or the moon get smaller (though the glare they give off will cause less flaring in the lens as it gets lower in the sky). Are you really going to say these videos are all faked by the illuminati? You could make them yourself - go and watch them. You are in total denial if you think the sun and the moon actually move in the sky in the way you are claiming. Really. * You do understand what twilight is? Do you understand why you don't get it on the moon, where there is no atmosphere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 more info x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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