Flat Earth?

[paul's got wright]

52 minutes ago, mojomonkey said:

If the world is not spherical, what does anyone stand to gain by perpetuating a belief that it is? I've not seen any flat earther able to answer that question yet.

such a basic question shows you havent looked into it then x

[mojomonkey]

1 minute ago, paul's got wright said:

such a basic question shows you havent looked into it then x

Feel free to answer it and enlighten me then.

[quilp]

1 hour ago, mojomonkey said:

If the world is not spherical, what does anyone stand to gain by perpetuating a belief that it is? I've not seen any flat earther able to answer that question yet.

My guess is that it involves a sense of smug superiority. It often is expressed in some version of, "I've got my eyes wide open and I see what's really going on." Belief in the conspiracy (a flat earth in this case) makes the believer feel special, awake and smarter than everyone else. That feeling can exist only if the conspiracy exists so here is the important point: there does not need to be any rational reason for the conspiracy to exist. The deep desire is for the conspiracy to be real, and anyone with a deep desire can come up with endless reasons why that desire might be real. It's somewhat like convincing yourself that someone you desire is secretly madly in love with you, despite all signs to the contrary. There are people who do that too.

Also, an intense paranoia that, "They" are laughing at the ones being fooled. This is the flipside of the previous feeling. In the mindset of the conspiracy believer, the world is upside-down and the people running it are the ones enjoying a sense of smug superiority.

There is a huge projection effect going on here, as you can see. The believer feels such a rush from being in on the secret that he/she is sure that the keepers of the secret must feel the same way. Sure, there are always all kinds of reasons for what makes the conspiracy valuable, but at the deepest level the true believer assumes that, the conspirators keep their secret simply because they enjoy keeping the secret.

The brilliance of this mindset is that no kind of rational argument can ever budge it!

[Chinahand]

4 hours ago, paul's got wright said:

china if you think measuring shadows on a stick, on the isle of man,  is the proof of the correct size and shape of the whole earth, then good for you. clearly there's more to it than that. that's why nasa had to go to space in order to see the whole earth! and ridicule, attempted or otherwise, is not part of the scientific method. i already know all i need to know about the heliocentric model, in order to be honest enough to admit, that i dont know the true shape and size of the earth. unlike most people who just believe it because they were told since they were little children. i have forgotten more about this subject, than those types of people,  and like many others, i am hoping some evidence will come to light during the research that will bring us all closer to the truth of the matter. who knows, you might even be correct in your beliefs! we shall see x

Now Paul, I didn't say just on the IOM.  

Here's a table of the length of a shadow at noon today not only on the IOM but for every 10 degrees of latitude from the equator up to 70 degrees of latitude:

Latitude	Length of shadow
70	143.2
60	5.4
54.1	3.4
50	2.7
40	1.7
30	1.2
20	0.8
10	0.6
0	0.4

 

Now the question for you Paul is: are you going to believe or disbelieve this?  You can go and check it for yourself for the IOM can't you?  So here's a quandary for you.  Is this table fake or does it provide useful information about the length of the shadow at noon at various locations around the world?

You've got to answer that question for yourself, Paul.

It isn't a question of trust, because you can start the process of measuring it for yourself.  You name any day of the year, any location of the world and I'll be able to give you the length of the shadow at that point on the earth for you and you can check it out for yourself.  It might take you a while, but you can do it.  Now the issue is how many times are you going to do this, before you agree the table is accurate and useful, that the information it contains usefully describes the world?

You've got to think about that and answer it yourself.

Now, why is a shadow this length.  Why does its size vary around the world in a predictable way?  Can you understand how I've got these lengths - all you need to calculate them is how high the sun will be at a particular place at noon.

As I explained earlier - we may be staring at the stars [sun], but our telescopes and ourselves are grounded on Earth and so to know where to point our telescope [look to the sun] we have to understand the shape of the Earth.

PGW - go and measure the height of a shadow - surely that isn't too much for you.  Do it at different places and times.  The challenge to you is how many times will YOU have to do this before you trust that the table is giving you useful information.

Now - you've queried what use is knowing the height of a shadow to knowing the shape and size of the world.  Can you think about that, and how it might help you?

How would you use such a table to compute the size and shape of the world?

Give it a go.  Think about.

 

 

 

[dilligaf]

6 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

Now Paul, I didn't say just on the IOM.  

Here's a table of the length of a shadow at noon today not only on the IOM but for every 10 degrees of latitude from the equator up to 70 degrees of latitude:

Latitude	Length of shadow
70	143.2
60	5.4
54.1	3.4
50	2.7
40	1.7
30	1.2
20	0.8
10	0.6
0	0.4

 

Now the question for you Paul is: are you going to believe or disbelieve this?  You can go and check it for yourself for the IOM can't you?  So here's a quandary for you.  Is this table fake or does it provide useful information about the length of the shadow at noon at various locations around the world?

You've got to answer that question for yourself, Paul.

It isn't a question of trust, because you can start the process of measuring it for yourself.  You name any day of the year, any location of the world and I'll be able to give you the length of the shadow at that point on the earth for you and you can check it out for yourself.  It might take you a while, but you can do it.  Now the issue is how many times are you going to do this, before you agree the table is accurate and useful, that the information it contains usefully describes the world?

You've got to think about that and answer it yourself.

Now, why is a shadow this length.  Why does its size vary around the world in a predictable way?  Can you understand how I've got these lengths - all you need to calculate them is how high the sun will be at a particular place at noon.

As I explained earlier - we may be staring at the stars [sun], but our telescopes and ourselves are grounded on Earth and so to know where to point our telescope [look to the sun] we have to understand the shape of the Earth.

PGW - go and measure the height of a shadow - surely that isn't too much for you.  Do it at different places and times.  The challenge to you is how many times will YOU have to do this before you trust that the table is giving you useful information.

Now - you've queried what use is knowing the height of a shadow to knowing the shape and size of the world.  Can you think about that, and how it might help you?

How would you use such a table to compute the size and shape of the world?

Give it a go.  Think about it.

 

 

 

Was that a second challenge ?

[dilligaf]

?

 

[quilp]

As much as it galls me, from the Grauniad...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/19/the-earth-may-not-be-flat-but-it-is-possibly-doomed-fake-news

Empty vessels make the most noise...

[paul's got wright]

4 hours ago, mojomonkey said:

Feel free to answer it and enlighten me then.

go an do the research for yourself mojo and see how you feel about such questions then x

[paul's got wright]

2 hours ago, Chinahand said:

Now Paul, I didn't say just on the IOM.  

Here's a table of the length of a shadow at noon today not only on the IOM but for every 10 degrees of latitude from the equator up to 70 degrees of latitude:

Latitude	Length of shadow
70	143.2
60	5.4
54.1	3.4
50	2.7
40	1.7
30	1.2
20	0.8
10	0.6
0	0.4

 

Now the question for you Paul is: are you going to believe or disbelieve this?  You can go and check it for yourself for the IOM can't you?  So here's a quandary for you.  Is this table fake or does it provide useful information about the length of the shadow at noon at various locations around the world?

You've got to answer that question for yourself, Paul.

It isn't a question of trust, because you can start the process of measuring it for yourself.  You name any day of the year, any location of the world and I'll be able to give you the length of the shadow at that point on the earth for you and you can check it out for yourself.  It might take you a while, but you can do it.  Now the issue is how many times are you going to do this, before you agree the table is accurate and useful, that the information it contains usefully describes the world?

You've got to think about that and answer it yourself.

Now, why is a shadow this length.  Why does its size vary around the world in a predictable way?  Can you understand how I've got these lengths - all you need to calculate them is how high the sun will be at a particular place at noon.

As I explained earlier - we may be staring at the stars [sun], but our telescopes and ourselves are grounded on Earth and so to know where to point our telescope [look to the sun] we have to understand the shape of the Earth.

PGW - go and measure the height of a shadow - surely that isn't too much for you.  Do it at different places and times.  The challenge to you is how many times will YOU have to do this before you trust that the table is giving you useful information.

Now - you've queried what use is knowing the height of a shadow to knowing the shape and size of the world.  Can you think about that, and how it might help you?

How would you use such a table to compute the size and shape of the world?

Give it a go.  Think about.

 

 

 

china i do my own research and i welcome any evidence you bring. i dont jump to conclusions like you. thats the difference. we each have our own journey. the figure you have given are not your own measurements, and i have no need to believe or disbelieve them. i'm aware of them. nor did you devise the system of measurement or come to your own conclusions that you live on a spinning sphere. you were taught it from a child, given no opportunity to come to your own thoughts about the world. like the rest of us. so i know why you believe it and thats fine by me. dont try an push ye beliefs on me though. just because you believe this is the proof you require, does not mean that i have to also. you can squirm as much as you want, it wont end until the irrefutable proof has been provided, found demonstrated etc. thats why its hit the national and international news outlets. 

 

you dont know whats causing the shadows or where the light source is coming from. you dont know what the sun is or where it is and you have nothing but other peoples theories to proclaim as proof that you somehow "know" where the sun is. like youve been there and measured it. you assume too much china far too much. you are simply pushing your beliefs x

[mojomonkey]

24 minutes ago, paul's got wright said:

go an do the research for yourself mojo and see how you feel about such questions then x

Demonstrate you're aren't a troll and actually answer the question. 

[dilligaf]

16 minutes ago, mojomonkey said:

Demonstrate you're aren't a troll and actually answer the question. 

FFS, how long have you got ?

[paul's got wright]

54 minutes ago, mojomonkey said:

Demonstrate you're aren't a troll and actually answer the question. 

dont need to i have already written sincerely on the matter of false accusations of that nature. also im not your personal teacher am i so go an do your own research mojo, im not here to convince you of anything x

[dilligaf]

1 minute ago, paul's got wright said:

dont need to i have already written sincerely on the matter of false accusations of that nature. also im not your personal teacher am i so go an do your own research mojo, im not here to convince you of anything x

Just as well really, unless you have brought a very big box of sarnies. You could be here for some time. 

[paul's got wright]

its the current hot topic on the net, now its on the news, and finally now everyone will get to here all about it from all sides of the discussion, and mojo wont need to ask newbie questions anymore hopefully x

[dilligaf]

1 minute ago, paul's got wright said:

its the current hot topic on the net, now its on the news, and finally now everyone will get to here all about it from all sides of the discussion, and mojo wont need to ask newbie questions anymore hopefully x

But they are all laughing at you. Does that not bother you ?