paul's got wright Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, mojomonkey said: Ok paul, in the interests of this thread and totally without animosity. All I'm asking for is a simple and unambiguous answer to the following question. Do you believe in a spherical earth, a flat earth or an earth of a completely different shape? no i don't believe any of those things mojo. do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, mojomonkey said: Ok, which is the most likely? not sure really. which do you think mojo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Chinahand said: As well as wondering which is more likely a more important question is the issue of prediction. At the heart of science is the ability to predict the outcome of measurements; and that involves mathematics. Using a spherical model of the earth you can quickly generate a model which can predict sunrise and sunset times, where the sun will be in the sky at any particular place and time, how long twilight will be - which is another fascinating one for flat earthers: why does the length of twilight increase as you move further away from the equator, why is this increase basically symetrical with latitude (at the equinox). PGW may simply go that he doesn't know that twilight changes with latitude - but that ignorance is no excuse; and more importantly can a Flat Earth model of the earth generate predictions which have any skill in telling you anything. Here's a lovely introduction to how a spherical model can accurately predict not only the length but also the angle of shadows: link. I've asked numerous times if PGW accepts that these types of models have skill. If he's done so much research, and is so interested in science, can he produce a mathematical model based on a flat earth which can say tell me that sunrise tomorrow at -51.6977 latitude, -57.8517 longitude will be 04:42. If you really want to learn some science you could actually buy a book like this one and learn how these results are calculated, I promise you there's not a flat earth in sight, but they all rely on a spherical world. no ignorance on my part china. you are assuming a spherical earth in place of actually knowing from direct measurements. how do you KNOW its spherical in the first place. before you were trying to say i can prove it with sticks and shadow measurements. but i have to presume its a ball in the first place. not very good proof if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 45 minutes ago, The Bastard said: I think you're wasting your time. This seems more like attention-seeking than debate. i think you may have failed to have read and understood the thread so far tb. you couldn't be more wrong about attention seeking. this thread lay dormant for a good while so no attention seeking at all clearly. just now its hit the international news headlines an theres been a flat earth conference in america. do keep up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, paul's got wright said: no i don't believe any of those things mojo. do you? You have to believe one of them, the earth has to be some shape. I subscribe to the spherical earth, I accept the evidence provided. What shape do think the earth is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 PGW - in science you have observations of the world and you try to understand them. You draw conclusions based on those observations. Once you have drawn your conclusions you can then use that to make predictions. We have lots of observations from around the world throughout history - you can use shadows, surveying, horizon dip - people have been making observations like this for thousands of years - you aren't the first person to think about these issues and neither am I. People started thinking about these real observations and started creating mathematical models to see if they could understand them. That is the essence of science. Take observations see if you can generate a model to explain them. In this thread I've explained multiple times how models that assume a flat earth do not work, while those that assume a spherical one do. You seem to have a beef about using models and the assumptions they involve. But the issue is you ensure those assumptions are vaild, by examining how well the results fit with reality. If the assumptions were wrong then the predictions of the model wouldn't match the results. This stuff was all worked out 100s of years ago - go and look at the prediction Halley did for the eclipse of 1715. "We" know that the predictions of a spherical model are accurate - Captain Cook used them when he sailed to Tahiti, Jeremiah Horrocks used them to be the first person to predict a transit of Venus. Now maybe you aren't a part of "we", and you refuse to accept that a spherical model does accurately predict shadow lengths, the angle of the sun above the horizon on particular days etc etc - these things are vital for navigation with a sextant etc so any sailor from the 15th century onwards would know his tables and almanacs produced by the Royal Observatory had skill - accurately produced predictions which matched later observations. So, how do I know the world is spherical - because when you take measurements it shows it is spherical, and when I use the equations and mathematics which assume the world is spherical they produce predictions which match those measurements, and they do so all over the world - as Captain Cook and any navigator since his time knows. PGW do you really think all of this is false? Do you think a flat earth model can be used for accurate navigation, or to predict the length of a shadow or the height of the sun at noon or any other time of the day? Do you understand that Captain Cook was able to use his sextant and chronometer to work out he was at Tahiti, or Port Stanley, or Vancouver, because he was using tables generated by the Royal Observatory and which extrapolate these readings from Greenwich to anywhere else on the world using the assumption of a spherical earth? Please give a straight answer to these three questions, if you dare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 PGW. Can you prove 2+2 =4? Or can you prove you loved your mum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 @chinahand, Can I ask you again why you are going to such lengths to explain the science to an immutable personality? I'm impressed with all your clever-cloggery, though I doubt whether it's going to make any difference to pgw other than perpetuating his utter bollocks... Giving you a chance to shine, is it..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The mods have been militant of late (no complaints here) in shutting down past-their-debate-by-date threads. I’m astonished this one survived. It’s a toilet for PGW. End it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Can't people debate the evidence and history of an idea? PGW isn't conventional, and the flat earth is wrong, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to discuss it. Gerrydandridge responded in a more productive manner, and if all we get is koans and youtube videos I'll stop responding, but if PGW can answer some of the questions I've asked him in a reasonable way I don't see why my efforts to think of different ways to show the evidence that the world is a globe should be shut down. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it, and please don't insult, considering the subject matter this thread is remarkably restrained! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 OTOH (addressed to Uhtred's post) it's pretty harmless trollery, don't think anyone's taking it at all seriously. Some of the other topics have been pretty nasty. And we get to read China's explanations which are nearly always a full 3 on the Reith scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 hours ago, mojomonkey said: Ok, which is the most likely? not a betting man really mojo x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 hours ago, mojomonkey said: You have to believe one of them, the earth has to be some shape. I subscribe to the spherical earth, I accept the evidence provided. What shape do think the earth is? ha ha imagine having the audacity , in a scientific discussion, to tell some one that they have to believe in something they say! not at all mojo i have no idea of the whole shape and size of the earth. how could i ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Come on Paul, I'm being reasonable with and no one is asking you to gamble. The Earth has to be a shape, from the evidence you've undoubtedly reviewed what shape do you think it is? This isn't a malicious or trick question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, paul's got wright said: i have no idea of the whole shape and size of the earth. how could i ? I don't think you could paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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