Flat Earth?

[Slim]

read comments on the vid if you wish to argue, people there seem to love it. i'm just learning and researching with an open mind, and a strong sense of discernment, just leave me to it slim please. i offer my views and truth that's all. you wouldn't want kids at school bullied into believing what they are told would you? why am i any different? thanks x

Because you're posting your ridiculous suggestions that the ISS is a fake on a discussion forum. If you don't want them being discussed, perhaps a discussion forum isn't the best place for them?

 

I wouldn't want kids to have the belief that nothing can be trusted, at some point you have to have a bit of faith and belief in your fellow human and their abilities and skill Paul.

 

The ISS is half russian, why would it be in the USA?

[Mr. Sausages]

 

Someone who latches onto a wrong word used in a conversation is someone looking for a conspiracy.

is that confucious? wow x

 

 

What's confucious?

 

You can't mean Confucius because it's spelled differently. And you can't even be referring to a person because you would have used a capital C, so confucious must be a 'thing'. What is it what is it what is it?

 

^

 

That's me latching on to a wrong word used and making a big deal of it.

[paul's got wright]

i was reffering to your style x

[Mr. Sausages]

What's reffering?

 

(sorry)

[Chinahand]

i don't know and nor does anyone who hasn't been to space or circumnavigated the earth. how can they?

 

There is more to knowing things than direct experience - have you ever been to China, or Moscow or Norwich? Are all the photos of Tiananmen Square CGI too?

 

i don't believe it's flat, the topography varies greatly. but we do use levels to build so making parts flat is standard. the mountains and hills are surely not flat. they are not a continous curve either. and we have sea level. and

 

Come on - we are talking about the bulk form of the earth not any local variations.

 

i don't believe anything outside of my own knowledge i'm just aware of it's existence in whatever form it might be.

 

Paul - you do seem to trust certain sources more than others - what basis do you have for doing that - is it because they don't trust - can you see how that is a way to even less trust.

 

so nasa's video's are widley refuted and as i cannot know, i'm free and able to research both sides and learn along the way.

 

No they aren't widely refuted - A small percentage of people totally lack trust and understanding - but when you have populations measured in billions that means there are a lot of them. But they are just making huge leaps to justify their ideas - do you really think what was said in the clip should be interpreted as useful evidence?

 

why must people be told what to think by other people?

 

I've not told you what to think - I've repeatedly given you things you can actually do to show the shape and motion of the Earth - simple stellar observations, sunrise and sunset times, the height of the sun at midday, a Foucault's pendulum, looking at the weather and wind directions, sharing all of these things with other people around the world and noticing how they are different and realizing that this is because of the shape of the earth and its movement.

 

why must anyone believe either side here.

 

Evidence - you believe things when you have solid evidence to do so and genuinely you can collect that evidence yourself - what do you think is happening as a sailing ship initially goes hull down and then totally over the horizon? Just go and watch that happen one day - observations are useful.

 

there is a raging debate since copurnious apparently still unresolved amongst scientists and researchers alke.

 

No - there have always been cranks who refuse to accept evidence, but there is no debate that the earth is in its bulk form a sphere. You cannot do really simple things like surveying without taking account of it. Circumnavigation is a common and routine exercise. Please go and follow the Solar Impulse as it does it. Do you genuinely believe this is a hoax? Or is their circumnavigation evidence?

 

The shape of the earth is not a serious debate, it is down to extreme lack of trust by a very small minority, and ignorance of the things that have refuted older claims - such as atmospheric refraction at the Bedford levels.

 

i'm pretty sure we did not discuss the merits at school of any other theory.

 

Because the other theories have no merit - this comes down to evidence. What evidence is there for a flat or stationary earth?

 

therefore most people have not looked at all the evidence and researched the possibilities.

 

There is no evidence of a flat or stationary earth - people can state it, but assertions are just air without evidence.

 

please let people find out for themselves what they believe or trust or just plain do not know.

 

Well I've given lots of simple experiements you could do to actually see this for yourself rather than relying on Youtube. These experiments have been done thousands of times - they are done every time someone surveys something. Look at this link do you genuinely think it is fake? It explains how to correct for both the curvature of the earth and refraction - things they were only just learning about at the Bedford Levels.

 

You cannot build a large building or stadium without taking account of these effects. They are literally used daily around the world.

 

Do you really not believe or trust this. It is something that is plainly known. Maybe not by you or your friends, but you can learn it very simply.

 

This is good clear evidence - but it seems you do not accept it. Please try and explain why - do you not trust your own eyes when you see a ship going over the horizon?

 

it's not easy to understand for a lot of people, me included, when so much depends on trusting mathmatics physics cgi etc etc. with formulas and assumptions that are directly opposed by other people.

 

And you won't accept the opinion of people who do understand these things, because of your lack of trust. Please realize if this is really how you are then that is a serious problem in you trusting anything. This world is full of things you don't understand - aerodynamics, stress and fatigue lives, electro-magnetic radiation and quantum holes - but you trust aircraft, electronics and mobile phones to work.

 

 

if i can't know for myself through research i certainly wouldn't blindly believe anything i'm told. i don't need to i can just be in the middle and know that i don't know. it's called not jumping to conclusions.

 

You aren't being asked to blindly believe - there is such a thing as repeatibility in experimentation. Scientists come to trust their results because they consistently work and that enables engineers to use them in their designs and inventions because they repeated work.

 

i used to believe a lot of things but now i know them not to be true.

 

Can you share these things which you know not to be true - are they relevant to this issue? Do you genuinely disbelieve surveying and measurements of the height of the sun above (and below) the horizon?

 

so now i just assess things through research to give me a balanced view on subjects like this outside of our common knowledge.

 

if nasa can't even show the earth spinnin i don't know what to say really it's pretty silly. but hey what would i know?

 

This isn't true - I've shown you quite a few clips of the Earth spinnning - you just don't trust them.

 

I hope you realize how difficult it is to get things into deep space - this link gives a nice discussion of the science and engineering involved which will result in exactly what you are wanting - a satellite sitting beyond geostationary orbit taking high quality imagery of the Earth. My understanding is that Gerry will claim the hundreds of people, billions of dollars, rocket launch and eventual high quality images are all a conspiracy to hide the truth. That to me is nonsensical. I tried to get to see a rocket launch, to see it first hand, but sadly it was delayed beyond my Floridian holiday - Paul have you seen one? Do you really not trust that they do actually happen?

 

Do you really think "they" are doing it to trick you?

 

We're back to a huge lack of trust again.

 

but please allow me to think for myself and not choose for me lao thanks.

 

You are welcome to your own opinions, but not your own facts - it is a fact you have to correct for the shape of the earth to survey an area accurately. Do you really not trust that fact?

 

pleas just search the internet and you will find the otherside to all angles of the debate. i don't care who thinks what shape it is anyway i just like to discuss things to get a better view. my life does not depend on anyone knowing the shape of the earth. thank god x

 

Paul spending time researching the views of people who do not believe the Earth is spherical is genuinely a waste of your human talent. It is a dead end because these people are provably wrong. There are far more important things to discover - we do know the bulk shape of Earth - if you want to expand your horizons don't waste your time on such a distraction - learning surveying would be a far better use of your time, it is at least a useful trade, and will allow you to refute what these people are saying. Don't you trust me when I say that!

[manxy]

 

i'm not a "conspiracy nutter" slim, i'm just a member of mf like you.

Are you telling me what to think Paul? I'm my own person who makes his own mind up based on his observations. My observation is that support for an obviously tenuous theory that the ISS is in america makes you a conspiracy nutter.

 

trust is earned slim.

So in the case of those astronauts, they would have at least a masters degree in science or engineering which would be around 5 years of study and 1,000 hours of flying time in a jet aircraft. To gain those hours means you've been an officer, with all the years and training and rigorous recruitment that's involved in that process. Do you think, after all that, that he's earned a bit of trust in his abilities?

 

Why can't people just be nice to each other?

[manxy]

I found this interesting. Tangential Speed of Earth's Surface due to Rotational Motion

 

 

Nothing to do with a flat earth although it did mention that the earth was an oblate spheroid.

 

I would like to clear this up

So this guy jumped off a platform from 36 ft into a paddling pool of 12 inches deep or 30.5 cms Link here, would it have made a difference where he would land, based on how fast the tangential speed is?

[Slim]

Why can't people just be nice to each other?

I'm trying to educate him, that's one of the nicest thing anyone can do for you

[Chinahand]

Manxy - over your man falling straight down it basically makes only a tiny difference.

 

It is exactly like playing catch on an aeroplane - you can quite happily throw a ball up and down on a plane - it doesn't suddenly rush to the rear of the plane - it is also moving at 300 miles an hour or whatever.

 

Let's say the man is on the equator - he's rotating around the world at about 1000 miles an hour - as is everything else - the air, the buildings etc. So there is no sense of movement

 

Again think about being in an aeroplane. Inside it the air and everything else is moving with you at 300 mph or whatever, you have no sense of motion inside the cabin - everything is moving with you. If you drop a ball from the top of the cabin it'll fall under gravity and hit the cabin floor basically directly below where you dropped it (as long as the plane flies smoothly at a constant speed).

 

The man falling from the tower is exactly like this - he's moving, the earth is moving, he'll fall and keep moving at the 1000 mph, the earth will keep moving at 1000mph and they'll stay in step and he'll fall and land basically directly below where he fell.

 

There is a tiny complication as he'll keep moving at 1000 mph tangentially to the point where he went into freefall, while the Earth will rotate at 1000 mph radially. There is a difference between the tangential and radial motion, but it is absolutely tiny in the timeframes we are talking about especially as he is falling straight down.

 

These effects become more measurable over about 1000m and are regularly used in artillery and sniping. The tangential movement does become measurably different than the radial motion. From a frame of reference on the earth it looks like the tangent is curved - it isn't, it is because, in fact, you are curving away radially.

 

This effect is called the coriolis effect. I've linked to it before and it explains the movement of hurricanes and is used whenever objects are moving over distance of the earth.

 

Hope that explains things. The wiki on the coriolis effect is quite good - this amination explains how a straight (tangential) movement looks curved:

 

[Mr. Sausages]

I found this interesting. Tangential Speed of Earth's Surface due to Rotational Motion

 

 

Nothing to do with a flat earth although it did mention that the earth was an oblate spheroid.

 

I would like to clear this up

So this guy jumped off a platform from 36 ft into a paddling pool of 12 inches deep or 30.5 cms

, would it have made a difference where he would land, based on how fast the tangential speed is?

 

Yes. If you're at the North Pole and jump you just land where you started, but if you're near the equator and you jump in the air you land half a mile away.

[gerrydandridge]

Is it harder for skydivers to hit their target as they near the equator?

[Chinahand]

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/coriolis-force-effect-on-skydivers.166433/

[paul's got wright]

 

i don't know and nor does anyone who hasn't been to space or circumnavigated the earth. how can they?

 

There is more to knowing things than direct experience - have you ever been to China, or Moscow or Norwich? Are all the photos of Tiananmen Square CGI too?

 

i don't believe it's flat, the topography varies greatly. but we do use levels to build so making parts flat is standard. the mountains and hills are surely not flat. they are not a continous curve either. and we have sea level. and

 

Come on - we are talking about the bulk form of the earth not any local variations.

 

i don't believe anything outside of my own knowledge i'm just aware of it's existence in whatever form it might be.

 

Paul - you do seem to trust certain sources more than others - what basis do you have for doing that - is it because they don't trust - can you see how that is a way to even less trust.

 

so nasa's video's are widley refuted and as i cannot know, i'm free and able to research both sides and learn along the way.

 

No they aren't widely refuted - A small percentage of people totally lack trust and understanding - but when you have populations measured in billions that means there are a lot of them. But they are just making huge leaps to justify their ideas - do you really think what was said in the clip should be interpreted as useful evidence?

 

why must people be told what to think by other people?

 

I've not told you what to think - I've repeatedly given you things you can actually do to show the shape and motion of the Earth - simple stellar observations, sunrise and sunset times, the height of the sun at midday, a Foucault's pendulum, looking at the weather and wind directions, sharing all of these things with other people around the world and noticing how they are different and realizing that this is because of the shape of the earth and its movement.

 

why must anyone believe either side here.

 

Evidence - you believe things when you have solid evidence to do so and genuinely you can collect that evidence yourself - what do you think is happening as a sailing ship initially goes hull down and then totally over the horizon? Just go and watch that happen one day - observations are useful.

 

there is a raging debate since copurnious apparently still unresolved amongst scientists and researchers alke.

 

No - there have always been cranks who refuse to accept evidence, but there is no debate that the earth is in its bulk form a sphere. You cannot do really simple things like surveying without taking account of it. Circumnavigation is a common and routine exercise. Please go and follow the Solar Impulse as it does it. Do you genuinely believe this is a hoax? Or is their circumnavigation evidence?

 

The shape of the earth is not a serious debate, it is down to extreme lack of trust by a very small minority, and ignorance of the things that have refuted older claims - such as atmospheric refraction at the Bedford levels.

 

i'm pretty sure we did not discuss the merits at school of any other theory.

 

Because the other theories have no merit - this comes down to evidence. What evidence is there for a flat or stationary earth?

 

therefore most people have not looked at all the evidence and researched the possibilities.

 

There is no evidence of a flat or stationary earth - people can state it, but assertions are just air without evidence.

 

please let people find out for themselves what they believe or trust or just plain do not know.

 

Well I've given lots of simple experiements you could do to actually see this for yourself rather than relying on Youtube. These experiments have been done thousands of times - they are done every time someone surveys something. Look at this link do you genuinely think it is fake? It explains how to correct for both the curvature of the earth and refraction - things they were only just learning about at the Bedford Levels.

 

You cannot build a large building or stadium without taking account of these effects. They are literally used daily around the world.

 

Do you really not believe or trust this. It is something that is plainly known. Maybe not by you or your friends, but you can learn it very simply.

 

This is good clear evidence - but it seems you do not accept it. Please try and explain why - do you not trust your own eyes when you see a ship going over the horizon?

 

it's not easy to understand for a lot of people, me included, when so much depends on trusting mathmatics physics cgi etc etc. with formulas and assumptions that are directly opposed by other people.

 

And you won't accept the opinion of people who do understand these things, because of your lack of trust. Please realize if this is really how you are then that is a serious problem in you trusting anything. This world is full of things you don't understand - aerodynamics, stress and fatigue lives, electro-magnetic radiation and quantum holes - but you trust aircraft, electronics and mobile phones to work.

 

 

if i can't know for myself through research i certainly wouldn't blindly believe anything i'm told. i don't need to i can just be in the middle and know that i don't know. it's called not jumping to conclusions.

 

You aren't being asked to blindly believe - there is such a thing as repeatibility in experimentation. Scientists come to trust their results because they consistently work and that enables engineers to use them in their designs and inventions because they repeated work.

 

i used to believe a lot of things but now i know them not to be true.

 

Can you share these things which you know not to be true - are they relevant to this issue? Do you genuinely disbelieve surveying and measurements of the height of the sun above (and below) the horizon?

 

so now i just assess things through research to give me a balanced view on subjects like this outside of our common knowledge.

 

if nasa can't even show the earth spinnin i don't know what to say really it's pretty silly. but hey what would i know?

 

This isn't true - I've shown you quite a few clips of the Earth spinnning - you just don't trust them.

 

I hope you realize how difficult it is to get things into deep space - this link gives a nice discussion of the science and engineering involved which will result in exactly what you are wanting - a satellite sitting beyond geostationary orbit taking high quality imagery of the Earth. My understanding is that Gerry will claim the hundreds of people, billions of dollars, rocket launch and eventual high quality images are all a conspiracy to hide the truth. That to me is nonsensical. I tried to get to see a rocket launch, to see it first hand, but sadly it was delayed beyond my Floridian holiday - Paul have you seen one? Do you really not trust that they do actually happen?

 

Do you really think "they" are doing it to trick you?

 

We're back to a huge lack of trust again.

 

but please allow me to think for myself and not choose for me lao thanks.

 

You are welcome to your own opinions, but not your own facts - it is a fact you have to correct for the shape of the earth to survey an area accurately. Do you really not trust that fact?

 

pleas just search the internet and you will find the otherside to all angles of the debate. i don't care who thinks what shape it is anyway i just like to discuss things to get a better view. my life does not depend on anyone knowing the shape of the earth. thank god x

 

Paul spending time researching the views of people who do not believe the Earth is spherical is genuinely a waste of your human talent. It is a dead end because these people are provably wrong. There are far more important things to discover - we do know the bulk shape of Earth - if you want to expand your horizons don't waste your time on such a distraction - learning surveying would be a far better use of your time, it is at least a useful trade, and will allow you to refute what these people are saying. Don't you trust me when I say that!

 

china thanks for your advice. of course i'm still without the first hand knowledge of the subject as i've said. so i will thoroughly enjoy looking at both sides and continue to learn through research. maybe i will agree with you at the end of my study? maybe i'll agree with something else? i don't know so it's going to be a fruitful journey no matter what. i trust my friends and family but, not to know the shape of the earth. life's not like that. trust means to care for someone to me. it's not comparable with refuted information on either side of this discussion. i trust what matters in my life. that's all i need.. thanks for not bullying me to blindly follow the common held opinions on both sides. i will remain impartial in my research and if i ever feel i actually know one way or the other, what the shape of the earth is, i will post here. i don't feel i have it in me or have the resources to complete most of the available experiments. let's just agree i will not be going to space, nor going continuously around the earth in a straight line. i'll be sure to use my faculties though, i'm good at that. so i remain for now as i was before. aware of both sides, interested in evidence observations and theory. aware of what i can see and know. and aside from any of this i'll crack on with my life, unaffected by the absolute truth that i do not know and cannot know for myself, what the actual true shape of the world is. happily thank you china x

[paul's got wright]

 

read comments on the vid if you wish to argue, people there seem to love it. i'm just learning and researching with an open mind, and a strong sense of discernment, just leave me to it slim please. i offer my views and truth that's all. you wouldn't want kids at school bullied into believing what they are told would you? why am i any different? thanks x

Because you're posting your ridiculous suggestions that the ISS is a fake on a discussion forum. If you don't want them being discussed, perhaps a discussion forum isn't the best place for them?

 

I wouldn't want kids to have the belief that nothing can be trusted, at some point you have to have a bit of faith and belief in your fellow human and their abilities and skill Paul.

 

The ISS is half russian, why would it be in the USA?

 

no slim i'm posting information freely available in the public domain. it's known as a resource. it's a nasa video being laughed at by some and completely believed by others. i of course do not know. i'm just researching as gerry started the topic. i haven't suggested anything mate. why would anyone not trust anything? that's not how life works. all life is trust slim. i'm happy to trust what you believe. i don't try to change it do i. x

[paul's got wright]

 

 

i'm not a "conspiracy nutter" slim, i'm just a member of mf like you.

Are you telling me what to think Paul? I'm my own person who makes his own mind up based on his observations. My observation is that support for an obviously tenuous theory that the ISS is in america makes you a conspiracy nutter.

 

trust is earned slim.

So in the case of those astronauts, they would have at least a masters degree in science or engineering which would be around 5 years of study and 1,000 hours of flying time in a jet aircraft. To gain those hours means you've been an officer, with all the years and training and rigorous recruitment that's involved in that process. Do you think, after all that, that he's earned a bit of trust in his abilities?

 

Why can't people just be nice to each other?

 

i always try my best to be nice, but we all make mistakes x