paul's got wright Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 You also forgot to make sense. silly sausages! night mate x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 China: it would be helpful if I knew the mass of the mountain and also the angle of the plumb deviating from straight down?Gerry, I was dealing with a thought experiment, I do not know the exact relationship between mass (and distance) and the angle of deviation. If I said there was 3.5 million tonnes five Km away causing a deflection of a hundredth of a minute of arc how would it be helpful for you? If you really want to know - I would start somewhere like this paper, and work from there - you'll need to follow the bibliography. I have to be frank - I don't think knowing the mass of the mountain or the angle of deviation will be much help at all. Do you really think you'll be able to see some anomaly which will show what I've said to be wrong, or do you think you will gain some understanding which will make you stop rejecting what I've said and accept it? Simply put, at this stage of the proceedings are you willing to accept the principles involved - the reality is a bit more complicated than I've put up because they invovle 3 dimensions and not just 2, but the basic principle isn't hard to understand. You've flipped and flopped thoughout this thread - do you know the term - consilience? There is a huge consilience of evidence that the world is basically spherical - not quite as Spherical as a queue ball, but pretty close too it. It involves everything from the detailed science of vertical deflection to basic astronomy and weather forecasting etc etc etc. This is why this always comes back to mistrust. Are they all faking it? The geophysicists, the earth scientists, the rocket scientists. You seem to think such a world is perfectly possible. My goodness, what a sad view you must have of the wonderful achievements scholarship has brought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 China: Bearing in mind that the flat earth model suggests the moon is 32miles in diameter and approx 3000 miles away, with this is mind I was somewhat surprised when wrighty asked why you could see the moon from a place in the southern hemisphere and not the ice wall (flat earth theory says upto 2 miles high), these are not my figures but I am happy to go with them. I have been talking about seeing on a clear day the Orme from Douglas (60 miles), you then come in with comparing a 32 mile object up through the atmosphere and a 2 mile high object through several thousand miles of the densest atmosphere, at this point I had to close the laptop and retire to bed, leaving you and wrighty and MR.S to go off and have your victory “banjo duel”, as I thought you would be suggesting we bring down the Hubble to aid us in the venture. As for your plumb line mountain / Gravity thought experiment, I am happy to explore it in a sensible manner, please continue with it, please debunk the Suez canal argument with it. If the Earth is round, that’s fine with me, however at this point I think it is not, perhaps your thought experiment will convince me otherwise, I will not dogmatically defend the flat earth model if it seems I am wrong, however I feel here people will dogmatically defend the Globe model. As with some of the questions posed here throughout the thread, some of the comments have been very ignorant, they have clearly not even thought about it very hard, this is what I mean by the psychological aspect this thread has opened to me, not trolling, it has reinforced my perspective on human conditioning, I doubt anyone even bothered to use the refraction equation you provided for us, they just accepted it, and whilst they were all applauding you for it, I found it had failed on the orme experiment by nearly 30km Do you think there is no empirical evidence the earth is flat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 I would recommend that commentators who want to awaken from the dream of ignorance to spent 8 mins of their lives and watch the below video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G7d526eB5A#t=222 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 "I'm not trolling, I'm conducting a psychological experiment. By posting rubbish messages in an online communnity with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 No Bobbie it was not my "intent" is was just an observable outcome.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 more non believers here mojo http://blog.modernmechanix.com/5000-for-proving-the-earth-is-a-globe/ Are you deliberately being obtuse, that is simply a link to a newspaper story from the 1931. If you Google "Is the World flat" you will get about 616,000,000 results, if you Google "Is the World round" you will get about 914,000,000. The point is there is all manner of stuff on the internet, please don't believe it all. "The flat world theory is not confined to any country, sect or group. Within recent years the Rev. John Dmich, a Catholic priest, has written a book The Earth Is Not Round which has had a wide sale. Another pamphlet, One Hundred Proofs that the Earth is not a Globe, issued by William Carpenter in 1885, the year after Rowbottoms death, continues to appear in revised editions". above is from the article mojo maybe you didn't read it? x Yes, that's taken from the news story that was written in 1931. It's a story about how some believe the earth is flat and the history of such belief. What is the point your making with it? "The Voliva prize probably will remain uncollected unless some future space traveler some day anchors his ship a few thousand miles out in space and takes a movie of a globular world turning on its axis. That seems to be the only way the $5,000 can ever be collected". maybe this helps you mojo or is that from 1931 as well! x Yes, that is also from 1931. Have you actually read the article, the text below is simply a transcript so you don't have read the scanned copy but here it is if it helps - http://blog.modernmechanix.com/5000-for-proving-the-earth-is-a-globe/8/#mmGal I still ask what is the point you are trying to make with a link to a 1931 news story/magazine article about how some believe the earth is flat and the history of such belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 China: Bearing in mind that the flat earth model suggests the moon is 32miles in diameter and approx 3000 miles away, with this is mind I was somewhat surprised when wrighty asked why you could see the moon from a place in the southern hemisphere and not the ice wall (flat earth theory says upto 2 miles high), these are not my figures but I am happy to go with them. Well done gerry, you've broken free of the mind constraints of the state run education system, been able to see through the lies fed to the sheeple, and decided to think for yourself... ...by happily accepting figures that someone else has given you. Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 I always liked this clip from "good will hunting" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymsHLkB8u3s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 China: Bearing in mind that the flat earth model suggests the moon is 32miles in diameter and approx 3000 miles away You could disprove this in an evening working with a friend living else where around the world using equipment you could easily buy yourself or which you likely own already. You know about parallax. You could easily work out what the angles would be if the moon was like this. When you use a "model" you have to check how the predictions of this model work with reality. A prediction of a 32 mile diameter moon 3000 miles away (pauses and wonders if I need to go and work out the angular size of such an object; is it even consistent with the size of the moon?) is that it will have a parallax of a certain size. The moon doesn't have this parallax - it's actual parallax been measured thousands of times by thousands of people - it is a common student project. This is where we have a very fundamental difference - I've continually encouraged you to go and do the measurements yourself. These types of student projects aren't exercises in indoctrination they are an exercise of empowerment. You don't agree with how far away the moon is. Well, go and do it yourself. There is not a conspiracy to hide the truth, quite the opposite - hundreds of thousands of people over the centuries have confirmed the evidence. There is obviously a range of results from errors - if you do this on 5 different nights you will get 5 different results - but the range will have a consistency and that range categorically disproves a 32 mile diameter moon 3000 km away. All we are left with is you disbelieving my statements about evidence. And hence this thread cannot go anywhere - you do not trust, you do believe, you will not go and do the work necessary to test your ideas against evidence, but rather go and find people who are just like you talking on youtube. Go and buy yourself a telescope - genuinely you will empower yourself far more from doing a precision, mathematically rigourous analysis of evidence you have collected yourself than spending any amount of hours on youtube. We've basically not got anything else to say to each other, go and do the experiments and stop taking disproven theories seriously. Me being me I'll probably try and find other ways to show you how to measure the shape of the earth and expalin how others have gone and taken huge efforts to measure it to a precision I can only be in awe of due to the perseverance needed to collect the data. Data you think is on a par with a Youtube video full of errors and distortions. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 China: Bearing in mind that the flat earth model suggests the moon is 32miles in diameter and approx 3000 miles away, with this is mind I was somewhat surprised when wrighty asked why you could see the moon from a place in the southern hemisphere and not the ice wall (flat earth theory says upto 2 miles high), these are not my figures but I am happy to go with them. I have been talking about seeing on a clear day the Orme from Douglas (60 miles), you then come in with comparing a 32 mile object up through the atmosphere and a 2 mile high object through several thousand miles of the densest atmosphere, at this point I had to close the laptop and retire to bed, leaving you and wrighty and MR.S to go off and have your victory “banjo duel”, as I thought you would be suggesting we bring down the Hubble to aid us in the venture. As for your plumb line mountain / Gravity thought experiment, I am happy to explore it in a sensible manner, please continue with it, please debunk the Suez canal argument with it. If the Earth is round, that’s fine with me, however at this point I think it is not, perhaps your thought experiment will convince me otherwise, I will not dogmatically defend the flat earth model if it seems I am wrong, however I feel here people will dogmatically defend the Globe model. As with some of the questions posed here throughout the thread, some of the comments have been very ignorant, they have clearly not even thought about it very hard, this is what I mean by the psychological aspect this thread has opened to me, not trolling, it has reinforced my perspective on human conditioning, I doubt anyone even bothered to use the refraction equation you provided for us, they just accepted it, and whilst they were all applauding you for it, I found it had failed on the orme experiment by nearly 30km Do you think there is no empirical evidence the earth is flat? well said gerry. too many walters spoil the broth x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 more non believers here mojo http://blog.modernmechanix.com/5000-for-proving-the-earth-is-a-globe/ Are you deliberately being obtuse, that is simply a link to a newspaper story from the 1931. If you Google "Is the World flat" you will get about 616,000,000 results, if you Google "Is the World round" you will get about 914,000,000. The point is there is all manner of stuff on the internet, please don't believe it all. "The flat world theory is not confined to any country, sect or group. Within recent years the Rev. John Dmich, a Catholic priest, has written a book The Earth Is Not Round which has had a wide sale. Another pamphlet, One Hundred Proofs that the Earth is not a Globe, issued by William Carpenter in 1885, the year after Rowbottoms death, continues to appear in revised editions". above is from the article mojo maybe you didn't read it? x Yes, that's taken from the news story that was written in 1931. It's a story about how some believe the earth is flat and the history of such belief. What is the point your making with it? "The Voliva prize probably will remain uncollected unless some future space traveler some day anchors his ship a few thousand miles out in space and takes a movie of a globular world turning on its axis. That seems to be the only way the $5,000 can ever be collected". maybe this helps you mojo or is that from 1931 as well! x Yes, that is also from 1931. Have you actually read the article, the text below is simply a transcript so you don't have read the scanned copy but here it is if it helps - http://blog.modernmechanix.com/5000-for-proving-the-earth-is-a-globe/8/#mmGal I still ask what is the point you are trying to make with a link to a 1931 news story/magazine article about how some believe the earth is flat and the history of such belief? the debate has never ended mojo i've told you that. it remains x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If the troll isn't fed, it will go away. And for that reason, I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If the troll isn't fed, it will go away. And for that reason, I'm out. bye bob x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 im willing to bet that the geezer who first claimed the earth was round was met with the same derision that you are getting gerry.. think you prob wasting your time trying make these fools see sense, but kudos for trying anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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