HeliX Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 those " not truly" religious people, who must be default atheists because they commit atrocities cannot be true atheists, they must be closet deity worshippers who secretly believe they have a divine mandate to kill others, because true atheists would never do such things. Incorrect. Only true atheists have turned their backs on the spiritual frequencies that the universe transmits into the collective human subconsience. Truly religious people who base their philosophies on this spirituality know instinctively that to harm others is against the nature of the universe. Atheists have rejected this in their pursuit of selfish gain at the expense of others. I know it's wrong to harm others, and yet I don't have to subscribe to some batty theory about frequencies transmitted by magic. And no, make whatever assertion you want, but most atrocities in history were committed by religious people. Just because some of them didn't ascribe to YOUR notion of religion doesn't make them not religious, and it doesn't make you the arbiter of what is and isn't religion. But you only know that it's wrong to harm others because of the Judeo-Christian moral philosophies that have sculptured the society that you grew up in. Once you and your fellow atheists have wiped out that philosophy it will be a free for all of violence and horror. No. There'll be a whole lot less fighting over whose God is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Guys, he's called "The Troll". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Guys, he's called "The Troll". Based on the amount that he's been fed he's certainly not anorexic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaraj Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Is that the best counter argument you can come up with? Profanity and insult? This is the problem with atheists who have turned their backs on the creator, they lose all caring for their fellow man as they attempt to destroy the community spirits created by generations of spiritual leadership inspired by the creator. ...... Your amateurish attempt at mimicking me failed the moment you mentioned leadership. What on earth is "spiritual leadership"? On the Isle of Man, the church leadership kept the people in fear, ignorance and servitude to them for centuries. If Atheists can destroy that kind of "community spirit" then good on them. And the problem with some people who have absolute belief and trust that God is as real as night following day is that SOME believe that non-believers are incapable or unwilling or unable to follow a perfectly good and moral lifestyle. They are. I agree. I don't think we should put too much emphasis on whether someone believes in God or not. There are plenty of bad people out there who believe in God, and plenty of bad people who don't. I find the concept of "God" a bit too religious for my liking. This "God" preached by each religion is a construct of their own invention. I think there is some higher reality, and it need not be some formerly henotheistic deity from the middle east. Why must religion come up when talking about the meaning of life? Religion might provide some transient sense of meaning for some people, but if it's based on a pack of lies then I don't see what genuine meaning it can offer. But they only do because our society is so heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian philosophy and morals. And whilst there can be some good atheists because of this, they are simultaneously destroying that moral philosophy so that future generations will be deprived of it, and once that happens there will be nothing to stop the next genocidal leader from wiping out entire races. It isn't "atheists" who are destroying things. An enlightened form of Atheism is possibly one of the few solutions to the destruction going on. The real problem is not atheists or theists, but people who just don't think or question anything, and go along with what authority tells them or else they are just plain lazy and can't be bothered questioning things. As long as you arrive at or continue in atheism or theism through genuine free thinking, I don't see a problem. It's people who don't think who are the problem. Not truly religious people, those that believe in love and spirituality. They cannot be truly religious to commit those atrocities, so they must be by definition atheist. There are many atrocities carried out by those pretending to be religious, but they are atheists who do it to destroy community spirit and further the atheist agenda. Plain nonsense. It isn't being religious which makes a person good. In many cases, it makes a person bad. You can be totally religious and be a mass murderer or wicked person, either because the religion itself is evil or because they're deluded and they attribute words or intentions to a deity. There are fanatics out there who are so zealous in their belief that they are psychopaths who are a detriment to the rest of society. I have no doubt the folks at ISIS are genuine believers in the Islamic cult and its henotheistic moon-god Allah.I have no doubt some of the rebel rousers who went around burning witches or persecuting others really believed in what they were doing. That's why I agree with Stephen Weinberg: 'Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.' When I criticised fundamentalist Atheists in my earlier post, I was specifically responding to the fundamentalist types who follow a nihilistic philosophy and don't respect other people's views. I wasn't talking about normal Atheists. Atheists at least have thought about things and arrived at their belief. It's people who don't think who are the problem. Again they were carried out by atheists who were trying to rid the world of so called "witchcraft" which is just the name they gave to the harnessing of spiritual power that used to be common practice. Atheists have managed to eradicate this power in the main, to the extent that those who now claim to be at one with the universe are ridiculed and ostracised from mainstream society. Further evidenec of the atheist eradication of spiritualism that is essential for a healthy community. I don't doubt that some of them were opportunists who were functional atheists but you cannot deny that a large number of them and the society that allowed them to do what they did was entirely religious. You should really read some primary sources from the period to get a sense of just how mentally deranged some of these religious zealots were. They were off their heads. It was genuine religious belief. I think you are bordering on the No True Scotsman fallacy. Incorrect. Only true atheists have turned their backs on the spiritual frequencies that the universe transmits into the collective human subconsience. Uh............ What a load of tripe. There are civilisations that have no association with Judio-Christian morality who have developed decent moral codes. I agree with that. Confucius developed a humanist philosophy. I don't think we should get too invested in a religion as the source of morality, as religion is for the most part mythological. I don't think morality comes from any -ism or -ology, I think it comes from within. Part of the way our brains are wired, or perhaps from a spiritual source within us. I'm always impressed with the good nature and co-operative systems these indigeneous tribes have out beyond "civilisation". Being nice to others seems to be universal. What is puzzling to me, though, is those who are not nice. Is it a brain defect? A mental disorder which makes them sociopathic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The:Troll Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Muppet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 PZ Myers is a very controversial figure, but I'd really like to hear some specific criticisms of this talk. For me it goes to the core of the issues - science cannot provide values, but it can provide a framework to assess the consequences of values. My understanding of the purpose in my life is sharing my values and having them openly scrutinized so that there can be the great conversation about whether the consequences of my values are such that they are worth changing or passing on to others. My view is that we receive no spiritual/supernatural guidance to how to do this, we've got to struggle with it ourselves - it is far too easy to deceive yourself that you are spiritually inspired and hence have access to superior values than others. I see no evidence that there is a short cut to decide what values are best - I don't even know, in this context, what best means, and I doubt anyone else does either. The only solution is humility that you could be wrong, a willingness to listen to others, and also to explain why you think as you do. I think such a life generates meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lao Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I've just figured out the meaning of life. I was sat at home not really thinking about anything in particular, and just like that, the answer hit me, you know how that sometimes happens when you are trying to remember something, like the name of an actor, and you can picture their face but your can't remember their name no matter how hard you try, so you stop trying and then "bang", you're putting the shopping away, not even thinking about it any more and suddenly it hit's you. Well that's what happened to me, only with the meaning of life, rather than some errant piece of trivia. But i can't tell you what it is because it deeply personal, but don't worry, my revelation wouldn't help you any way, part of the secret is, It's different for each of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Not if you're a Christian. And that's all that I'll say on that aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Not if you're a Christian. He isn't a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 PZ Myers has a poor grasp of Scripture and philosophy, just like Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and Harris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Your statements without evidence or justification are one of the reasons it is difficult to engage with you in a discussion. Please try to explain why you have an opinion rather than just stating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkin Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Boom! Right in the pussy! All of a sudden I knew exactly what I wanted for tea. I've just figured out the meaning of life. I was sat at home not really thinking about anything in particular, and just like that, the answer hit me, you know how that sometimes happens when you are trying to remember something, like the name of an actor, and you can picture their face but your can't remember their name no matter how hard you try, so you stop trying and then "bang", you're putting the shopping away, not even thinking about it any more and suddenly it hit's you. Well that's what happened to me, only with the meaning of life, rather than some errant piece of trivia. But i can't tell you what it is because it deeply personal, but don't worry, my revelation wouldn't help you any way, part of the secret is, It's different for each of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkin Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I can't tell you though; it's different for each of us........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Fish Fingers? Microwaved, of course #Matilda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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