dilligaf Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I can tell you that you can't actually work out the perimeters of the figures with the limited information he's given you. It's impossible. It's a lot simpler than I thought. If I can see it, everyone can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Assuming right angles, and assuming that the '2' in the right hand figure refers to the vertical component, then both shapes have a perimeter of 44. One assumes that wrighty's nine year old kid has logged on to Manx Forums using his account. On the other hand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I can tell you that you can't actually work out the perimeters of the figures with the limited information he's given you. It's impossible. It's a lot simpler than I thought. If I can see it, everyone can. It can't be done with the information Chinahand gave you. It's impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I'm working on it with graph paper. My mind doesn't seek mathematical solutions, I always work better with graphical representations of any problem. Funny, isn't it, just how the mind works for different types? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I'm working on it with graph paper. My mind doesn't seek mathematical solutions, I always work better with graphical representations of any problem. Funny, isn't it, just how the mind works for different types? No, it isn't funny at all. The question posed is perfectly clear. Graph paper isn't involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Well, I expected that really. What may be clearly apparent as a mathematical exercise to you, may be a different exercise for others, but you cannot accept that using a different route is equally as valid, providing the same outcome is achieved. Ah well, I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Well, I expected that really. What may be clearly apparent as a mathematical exercise to you, may be a different exercise for others, but you cannot accept that using a different route is equally as valid, providing the same outcome is achieved. Ah well, I tried. For fuck's sake, it's like pulling teeth. A different route is not equally valid, you are either able to do it using the information given or you are not. It doesn't say you can supplement the information with more information gleaned from using further devices. The fact is, Chinahand has copied and pasted a mathematical problem from a third party in a half arsed way, and as a result of him omitting some information that is essential to being able to actually do the fucking puzzle, information which is present in the original third party version, it is impossible to do it without assuming some values as being given. Which they haven't been. He'll be along at some stage to tell you I'm right, unless of course it's deliberate and the answer is actually no. Either way, he's a twonk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Please don't worry on my behalf, it's a puzzle, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 MTP if you are so sure that info is missing in the cut and paste then provide the link. I get 44 and I'm no mathematician. And yes I made the same basic assumptions as Wrighty and no I didn't use graph paper. It's really very simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 MTP if you are so sure that info is missing in the cut and paste then provide the link. I get 44 and I'm no mathematician. And yes I made the same basic assumptions as Wrighty and no I didn't use graph paper. It's really very simple. MTP is stuck on the fact that we are not TOLD that the angles are right angles, but they obviously are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 they obviously are. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Here's the proper version/solution, with all the necessary information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 I've seen Chinahand reading this this morning, and still nothing from him, so assuming he's happy with what he posted, Can you work out what the perimeters of these two figures are with the information available? The answer is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 My goodness MTP - I do have a life you know and I'm not going to tap out an answer in the rush hour on my phone. This is a math's puzzle for people to try and solve, I'm not going to leap in immediately someone says something I'm going to see how people respond while trying to work it out themselves. As always with maths you should firstly lay out your assumptions, then you show your working. If you assume the figures are rectilinear, are shown drawn in an orthographic projection from above on a flat plan with no extentions into or out of the plain etc etc etc then you do have enough information to work out the perimeter. Let's not over think this, it is a test for 10 year olds after all! I think it is pretty obvious the question assumes right angles, but you are correct this is the vital point and it was missed out/implicitly assumed in the original test question. How would I solve it - by labelling the diagram and showing how they fit together: What is nice about the question is that you cannot work out the area of the shapes, but you can work out their perimeter. The take home, talking point after teaching pupils how to solve a problem like this should be to get them to understand that the same area can have different perimeters and a constant perimeter can encompass different areas. The dad who insisted the problem couldn't be solved was mixing up the indeterminacy of the area with the fixed length of the perimeter ... or he was quibbling about whether it was a rectilinear shape and totally failing to understand the teaching goal of putting up figures like these . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 you are correct this is the vital point and it was missed out/implicitly assumed in the original test question. No it wasn't. Are you blind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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