21 yr old Boston Bomber to be given death penalty

[guzzi]

.... and to be fair, the U.S. also has a secular government. Even so, secular government does have a greater propensity for tolerance than religious government. Secular government can go just as wrong ethically as any type of government, but it does at least avoid the evils of persecution, criminalisation and execution for 'deviant' religious belief.

[woolley]

 

It reduces those involved in trying and convicting him to his level.

 

I've thought long and hard about this subject and I keep coming back to this comment which I now feel I wholeheartedly agree with. There's just something not right, something I can't quite get my head around about a jury passing down a sentence of death in an advanced post-industrial 21st century western society. But then the statistics for how many in that society believe the earth is 6,000 years old or in a literal Noah's ark is again something I can't get my head around. The America of today is not the Republic of the late 18th century. Something has gone seriously amiss. It's now a backward society of savages which goes around the world bombing people, stealing natural resources, with a celebrity cult of personality, the highest prison population in the world, prisons run for profit, militarisation of police forces, preparations for fullscale marshall law. Really, the place appears to be going to hell in a handbasket. The overzealous use of the death penalty and this bomber's terrorism appear to be symptons of the same societal madness. We're seeing the collapse of an empire and I just hope we don't go down with them..

 

I shouldn't worry about going down with them as far as empire collapse is concerned. We were way ahead of them on that one. As for the nutter, he should be allowed his martyrdom, but only very slowly.

[ScotsAlan]

 

 

 

Nope. The death sentence is a religious thing. We dont need it. What we need is secular Governments.

How does that work in China? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they're pretty secular and kill more than everybody else.

They do indeed.. have I ever said I agree with it... nope.

 

Does your place of abode dictate ones political leanings?

 

Nah.

[wrighty]

 

 

 

Nope. The death sentence is a religious thing. We dont need it. What we need is secular Governments.

How does that work in China? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they're pretty secular and kill more than everybody else.

They do indeed.. have I ever said I agree with it... nope.

 

Does your place of abode dictate ones political leanings?

 

Nah.

 

I didn't say, or even imply, that you agreed with it. But you did imply that death penalties are down to religious ideologies, which the Chinese government don't have as far as I'm aware. So I was just questioning your logic, not your beliefs.

[Neil Down]

 

I could also win the lottery, the odds are probably the same

 

You seem to be given to making sweeping statements which have little, if any, basis in fact.

 

Not a sweeping statement you moron but an accurate statement. I could one day win the lottery.

[The Sick Moon]

 

 

I could also win the lottery, the odds are probably the same

 

You seem to be given to making sweeping statements which have little, if any, basis in fact.

 

Not a sweeping statement you moron but an accurate statement. I could one day win the lottery.

 

 

Yes you could. So you are therefore conceding that this criminal might be rehabilitated and on release become an upstanding and useful member of society. I would like to see how you are working out the odds on this happening, and subsequently claiming that they are similar odds to winning the lottery. If you are unable to do this, I shall continue to regard it as a sweeping statement with little, if any, basis in fact.

[ScotsAlan]

 

 

 

 

Nope. The death sentence is a religious thing. We dont need it. What we need is secular Governments.

How does that work in China? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they're pretty secular and kill more than everybody else.

They do indeed.. have I ever said I agree with it... nope.

 

Does your place of abode dictate ones political leanings?

 

Nah.

 

I didn't say, or even imply, that you agreed with it. But you did imply that death penalties are down to religious ideologies, which the Chinese government don't have as far as I'm aware. So I was just questioning your logic, not your beliefs.

 

Sorry Wrighty. I was in defensive mode and missed the point of your post.

 

You are totally correct. China is supected of executing more people than any other country, but by their constitution, they are aethiest.

 

But in this aethiest country, the Party has pretty much taken over the place from God. Or at least that's what they tried to do in the past. The Party can take you away and vanish you in the blink of an eye.

 

But it's a strange system here. Because, nominally, execution is seen as removal of people from society. If a person commits a crime , they are removed for the greater good of the masses.

 

For example, the Kunming knife attackers. The attack happened, people died, and a few weeks later the Government reported they had caught the perpatrators. A month later, found guilty, a month after that, executed.

 

The execution is not a punishment, it is not a deterrent, it is used as a sign that Government have sorted the problem, nothing to see here.... move along.

 

And the people don't care. They don't care who gets executed, or even if anyone actually gets executed or even brought to trial. Chinese society does not care one iota for the life of anyone else other than immediate family.

 

But the Party has to show they are in control. So they execute. It does not really matter who they execute, so long as they execute. To show they are in control and are removing bad people from society.

 

The average Joe on the street could not care less.

 

That is the difference. The Religious believers in Religious countries want Justice, and the people have an opinion on that. They demand the Government deliver on their wishes. In China, people just want to look the other way. Not my problem. It's a Govenment problem, let them sort it.

 

There is really only one law in China.... Don't upset the Party, because They are God.

 

Sort of quasi Religious.

 

[woolley]

 

But it's a strange system here. Because, nominally, execution is seen as removal of people from society. If a person commits a crime , they are removed for the greater good of the masses.

 

That aspect, at least, sounds good to me.

[spook]

 

But it's a strange system here. Because, nominally, execution is seen as removal of people from society. If a person commits a crime , they are removed for the greater good of the masses.

 

That aspect, at least, sounds good to me.

Certainly does to me too in the case of terrorists and even those who support them. Also most serious see offenders. At present they may get a few years in jail, their victims get a life sentence.

[ScotsAlan]

 

 

But it's a strange system here. Because, nominally, execution is seen as removal of people from society. If a person commits a crime , they are removed for the greater good of the masses.

 

That aspect, at least, sounds good to me.

 

 

I am totally gainst the death sentence, but in this case I would have to say "whatever".

 

If he committed this crime in a country with a pro death sentence mandate, then he has to take the punishment. A persecuted freedom fighter he is not. Just an idiot that killed innocent people for no cause.

 

Just do it quick. A bullet in the head and forget about him. This guy was an idiot.

 

I have no problem with that. I mean that 100%. This guy killed innocents for no reason. Bullet in his head and be done.

 

But the problem with the death sentence, is that is too politicised. Nelson Mandella was considered a terrorist at one point, so was George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Jerry Adams, Ghandi... and so on.

 

Dont flame me for this. In no way whatsover I am suggesting this piece if shit is some sort of hero of the future. He had no cause. He should spend life in jail, or have a bullet in his head if that is the justice of the jurisdiction. His removal from society should be based on the crime committed, not on the political mood at the time.

 

Do you see what I mean?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[woolley]

Yes I do. A very valid point and plenty of the sort have died for their cause down the centuries. However, I think there are sufficient cases or, as you would have it, pieces of shit, that are far enough from even a whiff of politics to keep the executioners busy.

[The Sick Moon]

I am totally gainst the death sentence, but in this case I would have to say "whatever".

 

If he committed this crime in a country with a pro death sentence mandate, then he has to take the punishment. A persecuted freedom fighter he is not. Just an idiot that killed innocent people for no cause.

 

Just do it quick. A bullet in the head and forget about him. This guy was an idiot.

 

I have no problem with that. I mean that 100%. This guy killed innocents for no reason. Bullet in his head and be done.

 

But the problem with the death sentence, is that is too politicised. Nelson Mandella was considered a terrorist at one point, so was George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Jerry Adams, Ghandi... and so on.

 

Dont flame me for this. In no way whatsover I am suggesting this piece if shit is some sort of hero of the future. He had no cause. He should spend life in jail, or have a bullet in his head if that is the justice of the jurisdiction. His removal from society should be based on the crime committed, not on the political mood at the time.

 

Do you see what I mean?

 

I don't see what you mean! You claim to be totally against the death penalty (I assume that's what you meant by death sentence?) but then go on to demonstrate that you're not. What do you mean?

[ScotsAlan]

 

I am totally gainst the death sentence, but in this case I would have to say "whatever".

 

If he committed this crime in a country with a pro death sentence mandate, then he has to take the punishment. A persecuted freedom fighter he is not. Just an idiot that killed innocent people for no cause.

 

Just do it quick. A bullet in the head and forget about him. This guy was an idiot.

 

I have no problem with that. I mean that 100%. This guy killed innocents for no reason. Bullet in his head and be done.

 

But the problem with the death sentence, is that is too politicised. Nelson Mandella was considered a terrorist at one point, so was George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Jerry Adams, Ghandi... and so on.

 

Dont flame me for this. In no way whatsover I am suggesting this piece if shit is some sort of hero of the future. He had no cause. He should spend life in jail, or have a bullet in his head if that is the justice of the jurisdiction. His removal from society should be based on the crime committed, not on the political mood at the time.

 

Do you see what I mean?

 

I don't see what you mean! You claim to be totally against the death penalty (I assume that's what you meant by death sentence?) but then go on to demonstrate that you're not. What do you mean?

 

Yeah. confusing, ain't it.

 

I am against the death penalty, full stop.

 

But as Wrighty pointed out, I live in a country where they execute thousands of people a year. That got me thinking.

 

After all, we have these debates to agree, disagree, and maybe reach a middle ground.

 

I am happy to give in to the death sentence seekers, and say, that while I am against the death penalty in principle, a person who commits a capital offence in a country with that sentence, should expect the justice that country demands.

 

Other countries should of course work towards that country doing away with the death penalty, but sovereign nations being what they are, that wont happen any time soon.

 

It's what Wrighty said that changed my mind.

 

I live in China. China has the death sentence. If I commit a capital offence and am found guilty, should I say "I don't believe in the death sentence", in the hope that they wont put a bullet in my head?

 

Of course not. I live here. I choose to live here. If I commit a capital offense knowing that, then that is the sentence I will get.

 

You see, when Wrighty questioned me, his question made sense. And my answer to his question made me think. Because the death sentence in China is plain and simple, removal from society. No fanfare, no endless appeals to gain exposure for your non cause. Found guilty, that's it... you vapourise into the ether. You are gone, never existed, swept under the carpet. There is no legacy for others to pick up to bear aloft as they run forward towards suicide by court or suicide by cop.

 

Does that make sense?

 

 

 

 

[The Sick Moon]

No not really.

[ScotsAlan]

No not really.

Ok. So only balck or white allowed. No gray?

 

I admitted that Wrighty swayed my opinion, but that is not good enough till I agree with you?