Lagman Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Wonder if they will bring their wars with them? I mean not just Jihadis or whatever who are against us but Syrians have been a fierce enemy of Israel and have proved tough to fight on the Golan Heights although Israel has destroyed dozens of their fighter aircraft. Britain is the country responsible under the Balfour Declaration for the Jews having a homeland now Israel. Manchester is just one city with a large Jewish population. I can recall Iranians demonstrating in Piccadilly, Manchester buring Israeli flags, a chanting "Death to the Jews" (Something we would never have been allowed to say about them or anyone else) I lived for a while in Lower Broughton, Salford and the Jewish area is the next one up Higher Broughton. In 1987 at Salford Tech I had a 1,000 free sheet paper round of the Salford City Reporter and some of the Jewish people (It is street after street of Jews by the way many thousands) told me that like the IRA and the Ulster Loyalists they had been hiding arms for decades as supplied by Israel. Now there is a huge Irish population also in Manchester but that did not stop the Provisional IRA from demolishing the City centre. So surely, MI5 and 6 must know that amongst these refugees there will inevitably be infiltrated a sleeping force of terrorists and who knows which group they will attack. What are the people you talk to around your area saying about all this and the tv coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Wonder if they will bring their wars with them? I mean not just Jihadis or whatever who are against us but Syrians have been a fierce enemy of Israel and have proved tough to fight on the Golan Heights although Israel has destroyed dozens of their fighter aircraft. Britain is the country responsible under the Balfour Declaration for the Jews having a homeland now Israel. Manchester is just one city with a large Jewish population. I can recall Iranians demonstrating in Piccadilly, Manchester buring Israeli flags, a chanting "Death to the Jews" (Something we would never have been allowed to say about them or anyone else) I lived for a while in Lower Broughton, Salford and the Jewish area is the next one up Higher Broughton. In 1987 at Salford Tech I had a 1,000 free sheet paper round of the Salford City Reporter and some of the Jewish people (It is street after street of Jews by the way many thousands) told me that like the IRA and the Ulster Loyalists they had been hiding arms for decades as supplied by Israel. Now there is a huge Irish population also in Manchester but that did not stop the Provisional IRA from demolishing the City centre. So surely, MI5 and 6 must know that amongst these refugees there will inevitably be infiltrated a sleeping force of terrorists and who knows which group they will attack. Isn't that the plan? Keep everyone on their toes, tell them that unfortunately with all these refugees have come some ISIS followers, the new bogeyman, so I'm sorry folks we're gonna have to take away more of the liberties these people are so jealous of. Just in case mind. We'll give them all back once it's all settled down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 It is correct to say that the area we know as the 'Middle East' has been at war with itself, one way or another, for millenia. As soon as Muhammed moved to Medina the area erupted into country-wide chaos and murder. However, before Islam reared its ugly head, It was always a place of tribalists vying for supremacy and when they weren't fighting amongst themselves they were cruelly persecuting Jews, christians, Zoroastrians and other minor sects, subjugating them by forced conversion and the sword. It's much the same now in areas held by IS, except of course the sword has been replaced by the Ak47 (Russian) or its cheaper (Chinese) equivalent, which is where much of their arsenal originated. It is folly, and far too convenient to accuse the more recent intervention of Western military actions as the cause of this dilemma. Those people have been running from war, the miseries of various dictatorships and tribal expansionism since records began. War, famine and oppression is endemic in these societies. The mistake that the West made was its vain-glorious desire to bring some sort of path to peace ( and of course the price of oil ) by removing the likes of Saddam and Gaddafi which resulted in, as we see, further murderous de-stabilisation and the advent of the so-called, 'Arab Spring', the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, IS and Al-qaeda. Historically, the murder and mayhem has thrived in an atmosphere of deceit, corruption and the tribal-supremacism which existed for 2,000 years before the 'Religion of Peace' went on the rampage. Let's not forget these facts ... Saddam and Gaddafi....better the Dictator you know than the crazy ass mofos that will fill the void afterwards It is my fear that the EU and UK are about to facilitate some of these ''crazy ass mofos'' through the emotional reaction to the current crisis. Whenever I've seen these well-meaning europeans queuing-up to greet those refugees with a warm, supportive welcome I am reluctant to share their optimism because their collective naivety may well be their cultural downfall. Or at least, a future-shock of ghetto's and enclaves of peoples who end up hating the culture that gave them succour and trying to change it, either by demographic number or violence and intimidation. There is an essence of this happening around the UK, already. Yes. No matter what happens, our culture must not change. It has taken thousands of years for our culture to develop into what it is today. We are a proud mix of Celtic/pictish/Roman/Viking/Saxon/ Norman/ German heritage. No way do I want any other foreigners coming in. My culture of German beer and a curry on a Friday night must be preserved. We can't have other people come here with different cultures. I demand to be left in peace to eat my Macdonalds burger. The last thing I want to see is a Syrian Restaurant in my town. I don't want to see people in the street who threaten my rich culture. Then again. Why not? Culture is a strange beast. It changes. I was thinking about this recently. My wife is Chinese, and our Child has a Chinese passport. They are in the Uk at the moment on holiday. What culture should our daughter have? Should I be an upright defender on my culture, and ensure our daughter has a strong Scottish culture. Or should I insist she is 100% Chinese? In the end of course, it's nothing to do with me. It's her choice. Of course, the culture issue I have is my own doing. I went off to live in another country and I married a foreign woman. My choice. So I can understand the thinking of people who stay at home. They want their culture to be static. It must not be allowed to change. I respect that. The cultural bubble must be intact and defended. I don't actually agree with it. I think culture has to change and evolve. Of course it will have to change. There are too many people in the world now for culture bubbles to stay intact. I understand your sentiment but some cultures simply not mix. You only need to look at their view on homosexuality, women in general, rape, physical violence to women etc. I am not saying every single one of them lives like this but culturally that is how it works. And you are not going to get a load pitching up and suddenly ditching that culture to follow tradition western cultures. It won't happen. So, no I don't want any of them descending on the UK (or the IOM). What I do want is us to provide our share of financial and military support within their own country to provide them with a place they can remain and live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 It is correct to say that the area we know as the 'Middle East' has been at war with itself, one way or another, for millenia. As soon as Muhammed moved to Medina the area erupted into country-wide chaos and murder. However, before Islam reared its ugly head, It was always a place of tribalists vying for supremacy and when they weren't fighting amongst themselves they were cruelly persecuting Jews, christians, Zoroastrians and other minor sects, subjugating them by forced conversion and the sword. It's much the same now in areas held by IS, except of course the sword has been replaced by the Ak47 (Russian) or its cheaper (Chinese) equivalent, which is where much of their arsenal originated. It is folly, and far too convenient to accuse the more recent intervention of Western military actions as the cause of this dilemma. Those people have been running from war, the miseries of various dictatorships and tribal expansionism since records began. War, famine and oppression is endemic in these societies. The mistake that the West made was its vain-glorious desire to bring some sort of path to peace ( and of course the price of oil ) by removing the likes of Saddam and Gaddafi which resulted in, as we see, further murderous de-stabilisation and the advent of the so-called, 'Arab Spring', the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, IS and Al-qaeda. Historically, the murder and mayhem has thrived in an atmosphere of deceit, corruption and the tribal-supremacism which existed for 2,000 years before the 'Religion of Peace' went on the rampage. Let's not forget these facts ... But the likes of Ghaddafi and Saddam kept a very tight lid on all the unrest in their countries. Yes they ruled with an iron fist but they had relatively prosperous economies, stable societies and lots of faiths and sects co-existed. Now Libya and Iraq are basket cases and breeding grounds for every nutter and his dog to go about their merry way, inside and outside of the borders. The human race has slaughtered it's fellow man since it's inception, of all faiths and religions. It's one constant we do best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Well last night I was in the "Farage Arms" (Actually the Admiral J McHardy) and all age groups thought it was OK to take some in but as we are not the USA with Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty as was then we should not take in large numbers out of some quick fix emotional reaction. It was felt OK to do as Cameron plans a number of 20,000 over time filtered from the camps as a lot of these refugees are really economic migrants.. It is one thing to let people in from an old colonial connection and that has had its problems but we have very little connection with the Middle East/Arab world and why are the Arabs not doing much it seems? The younger ones were not aware that at one time anyone in the British Empire could live in the UK and about the late 1970s someone woke and counted 600 million people in the world could claim to be British via the old Empire link. We shut that door in a hurry and so as we are crowded already we can take a few thousand as a token gesture but no more. They seemed surprised when I said I recalled the Hungarian Uprising of 1956 when 200,000 Hungarians came to the West when the Red Army put the rebellion down and that was pre-EU days. I shared a desk at school with a Hungarian boy who spoke no English in the year 1959. Back then the Hungarians were billeted with local families and we had many of their children at school with us. I think the UN had something to do with the billeting and of course I think you got paid for it! We took in many more Hungarians than we plan to do Syrians but then the former were not dodgy enemies and anti-West to start with. People who were soft on refugees were not so keen when I said that after govt aid to the councils ended after one year then the Council Tax will have to go up to house refugees, schools etc etc and by the way as from October the health of children under five or six is to be a local council not NHS responsibility over here. Mmmm Council tax for my one bedroom place is £14 a week and that made 'em think especially the younger ones as I said you are the working generation who has to pay for it! If you can get a job that is! They might push you out of the way! The sympathy vote started to drain away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Good post Barrie. Spot on. These idiots who are posting sweet photos of their kids on Facebook holding "Refugees Welcome" signs know not what they do. They are teaching their kids to have compassion without a natural healthy caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Shoe Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 we should not take in large numbers out of some quick fix emotional reaction. Well said. Whether we take in 0, 20 or 15,000, it should be done with eyes wide open, knowing the ramifications (and only experts can project this, not Bell or the Bishop, as they're both idiots). If we (the people) agree to an irrevocable change in our little society, then so be it. But to go ahead to pay for Pensions or assuage our guilt from seeing bodies on breakfast TV would be pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 @ Mr Shoe: If we (the people) agree to an irrevocable change in our little society, .......... That would be a novelty wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Everyone is avoiding the obvious. Everyone is seeing a one way ticket. I propose a slightly different way to deal with this issue. We have all seen the before and after photos of Syria. My proposal is this. We open the gate and let everyone in. We give everyone a document that allows then to work. But the document is time limited. We say, you have a five year pass. Stay wait till we defeat IS. Lets empty Syria, let them all come here. Then we can defeat IS, and let the people go home. If IS have no hostages they have no power. Open the gates, break down the fences. Let people come. Give them a five year visa. Five years should be long enough to let people save enough money to rebuild the family homes destroyed by western bombs. Time limited asylum. We give you asylum till we sort out the problem in your country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 So are you proposing that the whole of europe takes that approach? A time limited Visa? The trouble is that with these ridiculous EU laws you simply will get people refusing to move back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Sounds a bit 1984. "Till we sort it out for you then you can go home." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Stay wait till we defeat IS We have been fighting the "War against Terror" since 2001...and we will be fighting it for a lot longer. How do we defeat something that has no home nation, no assets to destroy, no one leader, no one ideology? We thought with the death of OBL AQ would die off...it splintered and morphed into IS/ISIL/ISIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Not the only thing 1984 about it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 So are you proposing that the whole of europe takes that approach? A time limited Visa? The trouble is that with these ridiculous EU laws you simply will get people refusing to move back. Why not? It seems to me, that the problem with waging 100% war is the innocents that die. So take them out. Leave ISIS on their own Get rid of ISIS then the people can go home to rebuild. This is stupidity. We are all told to fear Muslims. But it is the moderate Muslims who are trying to escape the fanatics. And then we say " Hey.... we blame Muslims but we blame you moderate Muslims because you did not shoot the radical Muslims... We gave you guns FFS. We gave you the job to shoot the nutters. What the fuck is going on? Manxies group together to give shelter to washed out MGP campers. But you wont give shelter to people trying to escape UK missile attacks? You assume they are guilty because of the colour of their skin. You assume they are terrorists becasuse of their religion. Think about it. Is your culture so important that people have to die for it? Is your culture so powerfull that it will save the world? Srorry dudes. I have to break the news to you that the White GOD people are no longer the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Get rid of ISIS then the people can go home to rebuild. I agree with the majority of your post but for this sentence. How do we get rid of ISIS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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