rmanx Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 My rights as an individual have to be removed and infringed...to protect me from an imaginary bogeyman... But then am I the bogeyman...who knows? I mean that's why they have to read my email and internet history right? You clearly have no idea how successful security agencies are in preventing acts of aggression. How does accessing my email prevent terrorism? I am fully aware of how criminal and terrorist acts are prevented, but blanket access is a step too far Blanket access is needed to build up a database which is then used for historical access. There are hardly going to publish a list of the porn sites you visit. So guilty until proven so then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 If government are expecting to be able to access all communications, how does this deal with Internet Cafe's and Pay as you go mobile phones? Or is there a way of knowing who is using them? MAC addresses. Although there are some which can be dynamically changed they are quite rare in consumer electronics. You can "change" the mac address on any piece of hardware, regardless of whether it's "consumer" or otherwise. http://linuxconfig.org/change-mac-address-with-macchanger-linux-command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 My rights as an individual have to be removed and infringed...to protect me from an imaginary bogeyman... But then am I the bogeyman...who knows? I mean that's why they have to read my email and internet history right? You clearly have no idea how successful security agencies are in preventing acts of aggression. How does accessing my email prevent terrorism? I am fully aware of how criminal and terrorist acts are prevented, but blanket access is a step too far Blanket access is needed to build up a database which is then used for historical access. There are hardly going to publish a list of the porn sites you visit. Terrorists aren't going to use services that are compromised by this law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 If government are expecting to be able to access all communications, how does this deal with Internet Cafe's and Pay as you go mobile phones? Or is there a way of knowing who is using them? I suspect this will be the next step. Registration of phone numbers. They introduced it in China just this year. In August I think it was. All sim cards need to be registered to an ID. They done it in a very clever way too. They offered free upgrades to 4G. The telecom companies even visited factories to make sure everyone was taking up the free 4G upgrade. " Can I just see your ID card before I give you your free 4G upgrade?" Now, believe it or not, up until this 4G thing, pay as you go was available in China. After all, the internet is censored anyway, so why should the Government restrict who can look at the restricted internet. But here is the real problem, for me, as a dude living in China.... Every time a western country introduces a new law that infringes upon the human rights of it's citizens, it allows China to tighten up it's own laws. The human rights gap is narrowing all the time between developed and developing nations. And this gap needs to be there. Developing nations need to have their human rights a few points to the wrong of the west. It gives them bargaining power. They can do deals to improve human rights for economic deals. And the western leaders can hail these deals as their legacy. But trust me on this. China is struggling to keep that gap open at the moment. Human rights are being eroded so quickly in the UK that China is having to come up with daft new laws to keep the human rights gap. Bloody Tories. I am already paying Chinese tax to build their fucking nuclear power stations, and now they are destroying what limited human rights I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 if things get much worse they`ll have you paying a tax for owning a toilet al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Does / how does this legislation potentially impact the use of bitcoin? In its purest p2p implementation only the users have their keys. Or does the existence of user keys mean that the encryption would be exempt since it is therefore not strictly "unbreakable"? If WhatsApp and iMessage are rendered illegal in the UK by the legislation but bitcoin is legal because the user has a key - then presumably WhatsApp and iMessage would quickly be replaced with p2p style messaging - where only the user has the key? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Does / how does this legislation potentially impact the use of bitcoin? In its purest p2p implementation only the users have their keys. Or does the existence of user keys mean that the encryption would be exempt since it is therefore not strictly "unbreakable"? If WhatsApp and iMessage are rendered illegal in the UK by the legislation but bitcoin is legal because the user has a key - then presumably WhatsApp and iMessage would quickly be replaced with p2p style messaging - where only the user has the key? how does it affect the use of bitcoin as favoured currency on the dark web (or so something on the tellybox said about buying hacked customer details) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 If I was up to no good I'd just use good old pen and paper. No encryption necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 If WhatsApp and iMessage are rendered illegal in the UK by the legislation but bitcoin is legal because the user has a key - then presumably WhatsApp and iMessage would quickly be replaced with p2p style messaging - where only the user has the key? In other words, all the Good Guys will start using the same technology as the Bad Guys. It's genius. Assuming genius is a synonym for moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 It's genius. Assuming genius is a synonym for moronic. Does my supposition seem feasible? That if the user has a key then the technology would not be prohibited? Perhaps bitcoin is not a good example / comparison - I don't know. I was wondering whether anyone with a deeper knowledge of bitcoin than me had considered potential or possible implications. At a personal level I will be annoyed if iMessage and WhatsApp are banned. And yet I cannot see how these services could effectively implement a UK only version since that would mean messages to/from users in other countries would have to be blocked. And even if UK customers could be stopped from signing up, I don't see how visitors to the UK could be prevented from using their accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 If WhatsApp and iMessage are rendered illegal in the UK by the legislation but bitcoin is legal because the user has a key - then presumably WhatsApp and iMessage would quickly be replaced with p2p style messaging - where only the user has the key? In other words, all the Good Guys will start using the same technology as the Bad Guys. It's genius. Assuming genius is a synonym for moronic. Which leaves the dumb majority trapped into some kind of 1984 nightmare. Which is clearly the plan. No hiding money from the taxman, no arranging of demonstrations against government policy, no sharing of information that the government would like kept secret... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 now we are getting somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 now we are getting somewhere It's not that bloody difficult is it. If you're up to no good you ain't gonna e-mail your potential partner in crime asking him if he'd like to take part, or Google a DIY guide of how to do it, or phone him to discuss where to meet up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 but i thought the whole purpose of the dark net, tor browser etc was to funnel these types into an area they thought as secure, its one of the principles of signals intelligence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 It's genius. Assuming genius is a synonym for moronic. Does my supposition seem feasible? That if the user has a key then the technology would not be prohibited? Perhaps bitcoin is not a good example / comparison - I don't know. I was wondering whether anyone with a deeper knowledge of bitcoin than me had considered potential or possible implications. At a personal level I will be annoyed if iMessage and WhatsApp are banned. And yet I cannot see how these services could effectively implement a UK only version since that would mean messages to/from users in other countries would have to be blocked. And even if UK customers could be stopped from signing up, I don't see how visitors to the UK could be prevented from using their accounts. In End2End encryption the user does have a key. The only key. The real world example of TSA keys is probably the easiest to understand. Current situation: You have a box you put letters to me in. In order to deliver this safely to me, I give you one of my locks that only I have the key to. You pop your message in your box, put my lock on it, and send it to me. No-one else can open it. Nobody else has a key to my lock because I created the lock. I distribute these locks to anyone who wants to send me messages. They give me their locks in return. Government wants: The Government wants the locks to come with a second hole for Government master keys, just like the TSA keys at the airport. And just like the TSA keys at the airport, the bad guys will clone them and be able to open your boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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