The War in Syria - ISIS et al

[Padhasapa]

Turkish hypocrites

 

https://www.rt.com/news/323861-turkey-greek-airspace-violations/

 

Turkish warplanes abruptly ceased violating Greek airspace after downing a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 bomber on November 24. Previously, air intrusions made by Turkish fighter jets took place on a daily basis and amounted to thousands a year.

The data comes from a diplomatic source in Athens, cited by RIA Novosti.

The last time Turkish warplanes were spotted in Greek airspace was on November 25, when six jets, two of them carrying weapons, entered the neighbor’s aerial domain.

Intrusions of Turkish jets into Greek national airspace remain a constant headache for Athens. Turkey and Greece, while partners in NATO, have been adversaries for centuries. The two nations have warred with each other before and still have territorial disputes.

In particular 2014 was marked with a sharp increase of Greek airspace violations by the Turkish Air Force, which amounted to 2,244 incidents. From January to October 2015, Greece’s airspace was violated by Turkish warplanes 1,233 times, including 31 flights over Greek territory itself, according to the Greek Air Force’s headquarters. In November, before the downing of the Russian bomber, there were at least 50 registered airspace violations.

[Chinahand]

Yeah but the Bloody Sunday SLRs got about a bit.

[rmanx]

Remind me again how dropping billions of pounds in munitions on Syria is going make the UK safer?

 

Seems to me we are only inviting more attacks on UK soil and Brits abroad.

 

Exactly how is all that spending in the best interest of the British people?

 

Game of Thrones has nothing on the body count "we" are racking up

[dilligaf]

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/oct/10/military.jamesmeek

 

Interesting article on the SA80, the standard British Infantry weapon (granted the article is from 2002).

 

A good example of throwing good money after bad rope, and then more money and then more still.

 

The Royal Marines are now using the Diemaco C8, Pretty damning on the SA80...

 

Another killer.jpg

 

 

Never seen a terrorist with an SA80.

 

Luckily. most of us have never, and hopefully will never, see a terrorist, period.

[pongo]

Very interesting analysis here at The Guardian from Giora Eiland, a former head of Israel's National Security Council.

 

Moscow foresaw the threat posed by Isis and knows that only a united front can defeat it. Turkey's motives are murkier, however.

 

The conclusion should be obvious: the threat that Isis poses is similar to the threat that Nazi Germany posed. Coordination between Russia and the west will not guarantee that the battle against Isis is won, but without it that battle will surely be lost. The French president, François Hollande, seems to have accepted this, and we can only hope that he manages to persuade the other Nato countries both to restrain Turkey and to join forces with Russia.

[P.K.]

Yeah but the Bloody Sunday SLRs got about a bit.

L42 for overwatch.

 

On single-shot load and at 200 metres I could put 5 rounds in a 2-inch group through the middle of a figure-11 in 25 seconds. The round would go through a car, house, whatever and conveniently destroy itself en route.

 

The SA80 concept was a good one. The idea of a "bullpup" weapon is to get the longest possible barrel, thus mv and corresponding hit count, out of the shortest possible weapon. The switch to 556 ammo almost certainly made a bad product terrible.

 

Apparently the latest H&K variant is a quality piece of kit. But the switch to 556 is probably a mistake. Sure you can carry more rounds but that's negated by the fact you need more for the same result.

 

Never forget your personal weapon, the planks teddy bear, is made by the lowest bidder...

[Shake me up Judy]

RManx and the Corbynites have no answer because their first principle is that the West is ultimately the aggressor here; and that ISIL is the reaction or Frankenstein monster that Bush and Blair created. It's the all too familiar anti-west narrative; a secular religion with all its simple truth, dogma, explanatory beliefs and blind faith. You'll never get a constructive alternative from these boys because they genuinely don't have the answers. They really don't.

[Shake me up Judy]

I wonder if we've really had the full truth of what happened that day, or was the eventual inquiry politically compromised ?

[Lxxx]

Remind me again how dropping billions of pounds in munitions on Syria is going make the UK safer?

 

Seems to me we are only inviting more attacks on UK soil and Brits abroad.

 

Exactly how is all that spending in the best interest of the British people?

 

Game of Thrones has nothing on the body count "we" are racking up

 

It looks like a good idea for some if the Greater Israel project is a potential byproduct of it.

[Padhasapa]

RManx and the Corbynites have no answer because their first principle is that the West is ultimately the aggressor here; and that ISIL is the reaction or Frankenstein monster that Bush and Blair created. It's the all too familiar anti-west narrative; a secular religion with all its simple truth, dogma, explanatory beliefs and blind faith. You'll never get a constructive alternative from these boys because they genuinely don't have the answers. They really don't.

 

Is that why Nigel Farage is also against it? Sorry but not everyone who is opposed to Cameron's strikes on Syria are opposed because of an anti-west narrative or brain dead Corbyn's brand of leftist pacifism. The reason to be against it is because it's not a good plan. He wants to send a couple of planes to drop bombs. What is that going to achieve? To take on ISIS, we need to send troops on the ground and we need to start arming the Kurds and set about creating a new state of Kurdistan. We need to kick Turkey out of NATO. We need to start working with the Russians and sharing intelligence so there is a coordinated effort. Right now the only ones who appear to be interested in taking on ISIS are the Russians. Cameron's objective isn't to defeat ISIS, it is to topple Assad. Cameron needs to set out a proper objective and not just send planes to bomb Syria. We need to know who our enemies are and who our allies are. Right now I'm not conviced we know enough about the situation on the ground to tell friend from fo with all these "moderate" terrorists and "extremist" terrorists, we keep changing our minds about who we're supporting. How about we give up the regime change line and just deal with ISIS for the time being? If Cameron starts bombing Assad's forces, it will only strengthen ISIS or the other extremist groups. Assad is fighting ISIS, so how is toppling Assad going to help defeat ISIS?

[Padhasapa]

Isle of Man resident John Rhys Davies taks to Larry King on Russia Today

 

Acclaimed and outspoken actor John Rhys Davies talks to Larry about his latest movie Return to the Hiding Place. Davies, an outspoken advocate for Christianity, criticizes the West’s response to what he calls a war on Christians in the Middle East and Africa. “What I fear is not so much the replacement of one people by another, but the replacement of Western European Christian civilization with Islamic civilization,” the actor says.

 

 

He just got my respect.

[Lxxx]

 

 

Remind me again how dropping billions of pounds in munitions on Syria is going make the UK safer?

 

Seems to me we are only inviting more attacks on UK soil and Brits abroad.

 

Exactly how is all that spending in the best interest of the British people?

 

Game of Thrones has nothing on the body count "we" are racking up

It looks like a good idea for some if the Greater Israel project is a potential byproduct of it.

You might have something here. According to that report and other sources, it could all be going to plan. The refugee crisis has created a sense of foreboding in thousands of the European diaspora who have sought sanctuary by returning to the promised land fearing that in the long term, they will suffer most by what has been dubbed in some quarters as an ''Islamic invasion''. Thus the need for the ''Greater Israel''.

 

Or just coincidence, maybe.

 

Or ultra right-wing, anti-semitic propaganda on a par with the publication of 'The Protocol's of the Priory of Zion'?

It matters not whether it is planned, the outcome of unintended consequences or just plain coincidence. What matters is whether it happens.

[Padhasapa]

 

 

Remind me again how dropping billions of pounds in munitions on Syria is going make the UK safer?

 

Seems to me we are only inviting more attacks on UK soil and Brits abroad.

 

Exactly how is all that spending in the best interest of the British people?

 

Game of Thrones has nothing on the body count "we" are racking up

 

It looks like a good idea for some if the Greater Israel project is a potential byproduct of it.

 

 

You might have something here. According to that report and other sources, it could all be going to plan. The refugee crisis has created a sense of foreboding in thousands of the European diaspora who have sought sanctuary by returning to the promised land fearing that in the long term, they will suffer most by what has been dubbed in some quarters as an ''Islamic invasion''. Thus the need for the ''Greater Israel''.

 

Or just coincidence, maybe.

 

Or ultra right-wing, anti-semitic propaganda on a par with the publication of 'The Protocol's of the Priory of Zion'?

 

 

If you read or listen to what the Israeli intelligence people are saying about the situation (see Pongo's post on the previous page for an example), what is happening in Syria and Iraq is making Israel less safe. The idea that Israel is plotting to take over the middle east is a joke. They've been giving up territory to the Palestinians in order to maintain a dwindling majority Jewish demographic, so to say they'd go and take over most of the middle east as part of a Greater Israel agenda would totally screw them over demographically speaking. They are a democracy, after all. I'm going to go with it being propanda, but it's just as popular among the left-wing as the right-wing.

[Padhasapa]

 

The consideration of Assad's status will only take place once ISIS are 'defeated'.

 

You'd think so, if things were governed by common sense and good intentions, but has Cameron stated this? One of the criticisms against him is that he hasn't set out what our objectives are.

[woolley]

I think all of the powers involved in bombing Syria, and those about to, should pause and ask themselves what it is likely to achieve. I find myself in the uncomfortable position of thinking that Corbyn is right on this narrow point. It will achieve absolutely nothing. Not because I believe that it will make as more of a target. We cannot adopt such a craven attitude and we need to realise that we are a target in any case, so we could not possibly be any more of a target by bombing ISIS. Their only restraint is want of opportunity, not desire.

 

No. It is simply that it won't gain us anything at all. We need a more effective way of destroying them, and that will be difficult considering that they are in our midst in every town and city.