rmanx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 rmanx, are you being deliberately obtuse? Anti-terrorist police train for head shots with suspected suicide bombers and active shooters. That is a factual statement. That is what happened to Jean Charles de Menezes and is the current SOP for these specific circumstances. It isn't pandering to the media, it is a policy designed to counter a specific threat with sadly quite a lot of evidence to back it up from Israel. JCDM was at point blank range and even then he was some poor sod who had no idea what was going on. Do you honestly think PC Plod is going to be at point blank range in an active shooter or actual terrorist situation where they are likely to be shooting back? And I trust anything coming out of Israel about as much as I believe in Santa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 rmanx's PC Plod, who he is certain have never been trained to take a single head shot, ever, no guv, it is all just arm-chair experts pandering to the media: The last two photos aren't publicity images but press photos of real situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Those are specialist marksmen (because the term sniper has militaristic undertones), specifically trained for single shot, single kill in situations where range is an option (they wont have been much use in the JCDM shooting on the under ground would they?) I can pretty much guarantee that all armed police in London aren't all specialist marksmen. Change the goal post much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Also, since when have British Police deployed .50cal rifles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Where suicide bombers are wearing vests packed with high explosives, any shot to the body could kill hundreds of innocent civilians. That's what the French police had to consider when they went into that blacked out nightclub in Paris. You know fuck all 'rmanx' whoever you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think he does Judy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Yeah, he knows more than Deputy Chief Constable Simon Chesterman, The Metropolitan police commissioner, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, former-Met Police Chief Sir Ian Blair and former-Assistant Commissioner at the Met Steve House all of whom disagree with rmanx and acknowledge that head shots are a part of police training for terrorist and similar situations. What would they know, hey, it's all just media spin, says renowned counter-terrorism expert rmanx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Also, since when have British Police deployed .50cal rifles? I made a mistake in my google search term - it is New York's Met Police, not London's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassie Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassie Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Do you honestly expect PC Plod to pull off headshots with a heart rate of 180, adrenaline coursing, wounded civilians about, enemy gun fire, scream, shouts, civilians running around the joint getting in the way? You are confusing two different scenarios. JCDM was shot in the head from close range with his arms pinned by an officer to prevent him detonating a device. They were working to a pre-arranged plan. In a firefight training takes over and you are basically working on autopilot. In the recent outrage in Paris footage shows several officers coming under automatic 7.62 mm fire. You see the sparks from the rounds as they fall back. One guy immediately moves forward again armed with just a handgun. Totally out-gunned but he still tries to fight back. That's training for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Do you honestly expect PC Plod to pull off headshots with a heart rate of 180, adrenaline coursing, wounded civilians about, enemy gun fire, scream, shouts, civilians running around the joint getting in the way? You are confusing two different scenarios. JCDM was shot in the head from close range with his arms pinned by an officer to prevent him detonating a device. They were working to a pre-arranged plan. In a firefight training takes over and you are basically working on autopilot. In the recent outrage in Paris footage shows several officers coming under automatic 7.62 mm fire. You see the sparks from the rounds as they fall back. One guy immediately moves forward again armed with just a handgun. Totally out-gunned but he still tries to fight back. That's training for you... I bet he didn't managed any head shots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I bet he didn't managed any head shots... You appear to have finally realised how tactics differ according to the circumstances. Well done! Every day's a school day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I bet he didn't managed any head shots... You appear to have finally realised how tactics differ according to the circumstances. Well done! Every day's a school day.... I am fully aware that circumstance tactics dictate tactics. Chinahand and the like are under the impression that all armed police are going to be slinging off bean shots like they were a piece of cake. Imagine all the money we'll save when the hypothetical active shooter event happens, what with only using one bullet per bad guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Where suicide bombers are wearing vests packed with high explosives, any shot to the body could kill hundreds of innocent civilians. That's what the French police had to consider when they went into that blacked out nightclub in Paris. You know fuck all 'rmanx' whoever you are. From what I watched of the siege on the Charlie Hebdo terrorists, the police had no interest in avoiding bodyshots. The first baddie to run out of the door got well and truly riddled. As much as he's putting his point across rather combatively, rmanx is correct in pretty much everything he's said. The only time a headshot is appropriate is from range, with an unaware or unstartled target. Trying to hit the head of someone who is moving or returning fire does not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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