CrossRoss Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 @Stinky, some people make money from Wars. Who would disagree? But the War in Syria, to give a specific example, is not being fought over money, nor, to use a good example from the war is a racket thread, was the Falklands War, or even the Dirty Wars of South America. Do you think the Arab Israel conflict is due to profiteering? The causes of war are hugely more complex than them just being a racket for some. You aren't going to understand President Assad's, Putin's, al-Baghdadi's or Obama's motives by looking at their bank balances. You haven't read it though chinahand have you? Ask yourself why that is china. because chinahand is a pseudointellectual whose chief tactic is to complicate the issue and bore his victims into accepting his view as they have generally lost the will to live. By and large it is a successful tactic on Manxforums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Turkey didn't machine gun the pilots, Turkey is not in EU, but Russia is pissed off with Turkey. OMF maintains his usual hit rate. Turkey is on the fast track for inclusion into the EU and the EU will certainly not want to see that knocked off course. Really? Have you heard of political expediency? In view of recent events, EU wants Turkish co-operation in stemming the flow of hordes from the East, but I think it will be a cold day in Istanbul when the EU welcomes Turkey into the fold as a member. The EU is under great pressure as it is. Bringing in Turkey could be the final straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Plus Turkey is buying "dead" cheap oil by the truck load from ISIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 Stinky, I've skim read it but don't think looking at Du Pont's or the US leather industry's war profiteering particularly useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 You may arrive at the same conclusion as to why you believe I wouldn't read your recommendation, minus the(implied but prob fair to say) fact im obviously a bit of a thicko and probably wouldn't understand it. You are an intelligent guy china but your conditioning isquite visible to someone who once shared it, minus some of the bigger words of course. No offence china "You are an intelligent guy china but your conditioning"..... needs a lot of work. it's like an undercustarded sponge cake. the simple, tasty ingredients are there, but are doomed to fall short of that wholesome ending we all know and love x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Stinky, I've skim read it but don't think looking at Du Pont's or the US leather industry's war profiteering particularly useful. So at which century do you recommend I should start reading your book from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrimosa Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Did I really read a few pages back someone claiming there was no money being made off the back of the middle east being in turmoil? Vladimir Putin gives an alternative impression https://www.rt.com/news/322305-isis-financed-40-countries/ "I’ve shown our colleagues photos taken from space and from aircraft which clearly demonstrate the scale of the illegal trade in oil and petroleum products," he said. “The motorcade of refueling vehicles stretched for dozens of kilometers, so that from a height of 4,000 to 5,000 meters they stretch beyond the horizon," Putin added, comparing the convoy to gas and oil pipeline systems. Do you think ISIS is a charity giving these huge quantities of oil to the blackmarket? Who do you think is buying this oil? How much does it cost to build the bombs that get dropped? The guns that get shipped to rebels? The Toyota cars that ISIS got their hands on? There is money passing hands in all this and if you don't see that you are blind my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 It's a complicated minefield of interdependancies, alliances and corruption. With so much money changing hands between state sponsors and mercenaries and switching of allegiances who knows who is really running the show, if anyone. It's a mess but Putin seems to be offering the simplest answer to this situation, which is to obliterate ISIS/whatever they call themselves and then try to deal with the inevitable fallout. Of course it suits him and not the west but the west can't have it both ways. He's calling our bluff and we're looking at best impotent and at worst duplicitous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 Putin is protecting Assad, he isn't particularly concentrating on ISIS - hence bombing non-Isis areas along the Turkish border. As I've raised before - the oil is basically used locally - sure ISIS made over a million a day from it to buy its SUVs and guns to mount on them, but the money mainly comes from the local population to run their electricity supplies, cars etc. It is being smuggled into Turkey etc, but at the level of Jerry cans on donkeys and hosepipes, and not by ISIS, it has long been sold on to middle men, smugglers etc. It looks like the US has decided after Paris enough is enough and they've started to destroy the oil lorries which supply this trade. Putin could also have done it rather than complain about it on TV. The issue is it will bring real hardship to the civilian population living under IS. It is interesting that the US has decided to accept the blame for this, I await the humanitarian reports. Until Russia, the US, Saudi, Turkey and Iran can find some understanding of what a post war Middle East will look like they'll keep funding their favourites and proxies to keep fighting, with untold misery and blowback the result. The Treaty of Westphalia this aint. How many people need to die and where before its 21st Century equivalent emerges, goodness knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Putin is protecting Assad, he isn't particularly concentrating on ISIS - hence bombing non-Isis areas along the Turkish border. As I've raised before - the oil is basically used locally - sure ISIS made over a million a day from it to buy its SUVs and guns to mount on them, but the money mainly comes from the local population to run their electricity supplies, cars etc. It is being smuggled into Turkey etc, but at the level of Jerry cans on donkeys and hosepipes, and not by ISIS, it has long been sold on to middle men, smugglers etc. It looks like the US has decided after Paris enough is enough and they've started to destroy the oil lorries which supply this trade. Putin could also have done it rather than complain about it on TV. The issue is it will bring real hardship to the civilian population living under IS. It is interesting that the US has decided to accept the blame for this, I await the humanitarian reports. Until Russia, the US, Saudi, Turkey and Iran can find some understanding of what a post war Middle East will look like they'll keep funding their favourites and proxies to keep fighting, with untold misery and blowback the result. The Treaty of Westphalia this aint. How many people need to die and where before its 21st Century equivalent emerges, goodness knows. Of course he is but the west have used ISIS as the bogeyman to sell to their own citizens so Russia has called their bluff, but they are now receiving the blowback in the form of bombed passenger planes and downed jets. Someone wants the middle east to erupt and it's not a bunch of rag tag mercenaries. Their state sponsors are now upping the ante and are taking this covert war into an overt one, which isn't a direction the world wants to see again. It'll be interesting to see what position China takes on all this. Any clues Chinahand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 It'll be interesting to see what position China takes on all this. Any clues Chinahand? Let the rest of them fight it out until they are financially ruined and then reap the rewards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 China is becoming more involved but most likely they will hide behind Russia and support Assad staying in power unless Xi Jinping decides to take a more active role in the geopolitcs of this sort of thing. China's always being very cautious in the international arena. The CPC value the sovereignty of the dictator over loss of popular mandate (they have no truck with Mencius' Mandate of Heaven), and want to ensure territory remains under that sovereignty - mainly because of Taiwan and Tibet. They'll likely abstain or follow Russia in any UN votes and are unlikely to take a leading role. But in recent years they've been more willing to accept interventions: Link from here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rievaulx Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I don't know about you lot but I'm ashamed that my country is on the side of ISIS and Turkey. I'm a patriot but I have more respect for Putin and his foreign policy than for my own leaders and their scheming designs in the Middle East. It is not a good time to be a patriot and a person interested in truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 Obvious troll is obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rievaulx Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 What? I was expressing my view. If you think that's trolling, that's your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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