Lost Login Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 26 minutes ago, woolley said: It's politics. There is always dirty dealing, especially in US politics. The bottom line is that Trump aimed for a rapprochement with Putin's Russia. That could be a very good thing in all kinds of ways, but it does not suit the US establishment and powerful military and manufacturing interests. That is why there is a witch hunt and naturally all of the liberal outlets and the traditional Washington elite are lining up behind it to put the boot in. That's what it is about. Plain and simple. For as long as this shitstorm continues, they know that Trump is hamstrung and cannot be seen to be soft on Russia. Just the way they like it. They don't give a toss about electoral probity. They are simply buttressing the status quo ante. I totally disagree that it is a witch hunt but there you go. I think that Trump basically ruled by ego and vanity and like many rich businessmen he basically believes he can do what he likes as in business he has always been able to put his hand in his pocket to sort. He is now learning that there are certain lines you cannot cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Believe it or not LL, I totally agree with your post there concerning ego and vanity. That is indisputable, but it doesn't contradict anything I wrote in mine about the witch hunt and the entrenched interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 49 minutes ago, Bobbie Bobster said: I don't understand, its a matter of record that we agreed Brexit would have a detrimental effect on the British economy for a significant period of time! Yes. Agree. For a while until everything falls into place. I don't follow the thrust of your post here. My comment was about the irony of PK accusing others of being stupid, naive and easily manipulated when he sounds paralysed by apoplexy at every doom laden report he hears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, woolley said: That is why there is a witch hunt and naturally all of the liberal outlets and the traditional Washington elite are lining up behind it to put the boot in. Christopher Wray, nominated by Trump to lead the FBI after he sacked Comey, speaking to Senators today, specifically said that the investigation is "not a witch hunt". He also backed the investigation being led by Robert Mueller, also a former director of the FBI. Nobody serious is calling the investigation a witch hunt. Edited July 12, 2017 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Maybe Mueller's investigation isn't specifically a witch hunt, but you cannot tell me that the entire circus around this and the allegations flying around are serious and they do not amount to a witch hunt. Nor can you tell me that those making them think they hold water. It's all political. All suggestion. It's not about upholding the law. It's about getting traction for a movement to get rid of Trump. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Being a bit too digital there Woolley. It is perfectly possible for non-political, sober members of the intelligence community to pursue a genuine investigation of foreign cyber espionage and political manipulation while political partisans make hay with the process. You can diminish the importance of foreign powers deliberately hacking political party computers but I can understand why spooks would be concerned by that and want to find out what was going on. For Jr to get emails directly saying the Russian government was digging dirt on Clinton & wanted to help Trump and to reply "I love it" isn't trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 So what should he have said China? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Should he have reported this unencrypted email to the cia? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 6 hours ago, woolley said: Maybe Mueller's investigation isn't specifically a witch hunt, but you cannot tell me that the entire circus around this and the allegations flying around are serious and they do not amount to a witch hunt. Nor can you tell me that those making them think they hold water. It's all political. All suggestion. It's not about upholding the law. It's about getting traction for a movement to get rid of Trump. That's all. Pongo can speak for himself but I expect he may have no problem telling you the allegations are serious and are not a witch hunt. I certainly have no problem telling you that although I appreciate you may not agree. Now I am not an expert on American law so can not state whether accepting the help of a foreign Government is a crime in the USA. If it is Jnr has admitted at the least conspiracy or intent. However I expect that a majority of people would think that it is wrong to accept the the help of a foreign Govt, and not to do so openly, to win an election especially one that your country has deep suspicions of and is at war with in terms of ideology. I am pretty certain it would be illegal in the UK. My knowledge of UK elections is much better than of USA elections but look at the allegations in the tabloids of the Labour party or more recently Corbyn accepting assistance from foreign countries or the whole furore of whether Libya funded Scargill during the minors strike. If you thought Corbyn had accepted the help from a communist state such as China at the last election you would not meekly say it is not series. Additionally it is the lies, the changing stories and the apparent attempt to cover up. Remember it was the cover up that did for Nixon rather than the original activity. If Trump and his campaign had not basically come clean at the start this would have blown up pretty quickly. They did not and it is the drip drip of additional information and the Trumps changing explanations that are keeping the story going. Firing your FBI chief because they would not drop the investigation also is a pretty could way of keeping the story running and also potentially in my view pretty serious. I will agree that Trump's opposition will use to try and get rid of him. But that is politics. Do you serious politicians in any jurisdiction would if they thought there was an issue to get rid of an opposition party or leader would just shrug their shoulders and say nah, we'll leave it this time. Trump has given his "enemies" an opportunity to have a go at him. Not unsurprisingly they are taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 35 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: Should he have reported this unencrypted email to the cia? Once you get to a certain level in politics you start to interact with state security. Trump had Secret Service officers to ensure his security - they would have wanted to know a foreign power was deliberately targeting the campaign of a Presidential Candidate. It is their job to stop such espionage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I think Trump is doing a terrific job. Everything they attack him with is returned back on them. Watching Trump with the media and other detractors is like watching pure genius at work. Edited July 13, 2017 by llap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 47 minutes ago, llap said: I think Trump is doing a terrific job. Everything they attack him with is returned back on them. Watching Trump with the media and other detractors is like watching pure genius at work. Nurse - he's started again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 10 hours ago, Bobbie Bobster said: I don't understand, its a matter of record that we agreed Brexit would have a detrimental effect on the British economy for a significant period of time! not according to latest reports OBR reckons a loss of a maximum of £10bn which is mainly eu grants i.e our own money! with the loss of the rebate after 2019, WTO tariffs and no membership fee puts the uk way ahead. and before you ask it was on bbcdp....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 59 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Once you get to a certain level in politics you start to interact with state security. Trump had Secret Service officers to ensure his security - they would have wanted to know a foreign power was deliberately targeting the campaign of a Presidential Candidate. It is their job to stop such espionage. He should have brought the existence of this unencrypted email to the attention of the secunity services? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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