the stinking enigma Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 more or less so than quoting the us government? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 in your opinion pongo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 its quite hard to tell, see, because our media just seems to run with what they are told. how about this one then? worth dismissing without even reading too? https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-washpost-again-false-story-about-hacking-u-s-electric-grid/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 i have already asked you once before for a list of your "credible" non fake news sites pongo. i would be prepared to at least read them. how about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 its quite hard to tell, see, because our media just seems to run with what they are told. how about this one then? worth dismissing without even reading too? https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-washpost-again-false-story-about-hacking-u-s-electric-grid/ So you don't think that site is just another vessel for the left to demonise Trump, Brexit, etc.? Looking over that site most of the stories are predictable propaganda suited to an agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 In the same way, I could post up news stories which could convincingly offer a plausible opposite to that one. Depends where you want to look. The whole business of reportage is affected by agenda and subjective projection of political allegiances/sympathies. This creates ambiguity, uncertainty and falsehood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I'm a bit disappointed Trump hasn't started on that wall he promised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) its quite hard to tell, see, because our media just seems to run with what they are told. how about this one then? worth dismissing without even reading too?https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-washpost-again-false-story-about-hacking-u-s-electric-grid/So you don't think that site is just another vessel for the left to demonise Trump, Brexit, etc.? Looking over that site most of the stories are predictable propaganda suited to an agenda. I think it's unfair to say that the Left is exclusively demonising Trump. Like Farage on Brexit he was very good at polarizing public opinion and when you are able to polarize opinion to that degree all sort of hyper polarized nastiness unfolds. I don't believe it's about political sides (i.e.Left or Right) in the post truth world anymore - it's about a desire for one group of people who have told widespread lies to be exposed for telling those lies by others and visa versa. I read this before http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/putins-real-long-game-214589 I do think that amongst all the shit flying around you have to question who has been the biggest benefactor of Brexit (which has completely destabilized the EU), and of Trumps election and it's not naive to believe that Russia has been a quiet activator behind a lot of it. It's almost like what the US intelligence agencies did with the Arab Spring. Few even knew what they were voting for other than 'change' in both cases and even if that change is bad (like aspects of Brexit will be) that's what people were convinced they wanted and they selected whatever made up argument they chose to justify that call for change. Very little of the argument on both sides was 'real'. Trump is still to back up anything that he said to get elected; and Farage is basically an unelected agent of chaos who has not had to even back up one word of anything he said in presenting his case to get the UK out or the EU. It seems to me that a lot of people were so hoodwinked nobody is asking what the actual agenda of these people was given that they cried for change so bad and yet have failed, currently, to deliver any tangible aspect of it. In the meantime the apparent real benefactor in all of this has been Russia which is now getting its own way in Syria and which will profit substantially from the right wing breaking up the EU and diluting its political and military power. Edited January 2, 2017 by hboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Brexit hasn't yet happened so what its outcome will be is anyone's guess. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) Brexit hasn't yet happened so what its outcome will be is anyone's guess. My point is that the Prime Minister can't even say what Brexit will be and she's running the country. Farage fucked off almost instantly and went on to be a similar agent of chaos in the States for the Trump campaign. He will not be accountable for one thing to do with Brexit despite many of the lies he told to encourage people to vote for Brexit. To me people should be asking why as he apparently had no plan or agenda other than to throw the country into chaos. He didn't even know what the reality of Brexit meant himself - he just made up potential positive scenarios. The parallels with the Arab Spring are there and look at what those countries ended up with - chaos and having the shit bombed out of them in a lot of cases. I don't believe anything is about politics anymore it's about a quest for truth amongst the tissues of lies told to create certain outcomes which Russia currently seems to be the biggest beneficator of. Edited January 2, 2017 by hboy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I think until art50 is implemented it is best to try and avoid creating false dilemmas concerning the UK's departure from the EU. After March, and the local elections looming within the EU, the UK's exit will be the least of its worries. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) I think until art50 is implemented it is best to try and avoid creating false dilemmas concerning the UK's departure from the EU. After March, and the local elections looming within the EU, the UK's exit will be the least of its worries. That's a bit like saying you don't know what a nuclear war will look like so best press the big red button and see. My point is on the agenda that sits behind people like Trump and Farage. They told lies to create outcomes that had no certainty to them. They were just paid for agents of chaos. I'd like to know why. As I said to me it's not about politics it's about a quest for the actual truth behind what's gone on and why. You would expect that the people selling ideas to the population would at least hang around to see those ideas delivered. As it stands it seems that nobody is that bothered about backing up anything they said. What's happened is not really that different to the Arab Spring in that none of them got what they expected either and now Egypt, Libya, and Syria in particular are even worse places than they were to live in before they were covertly convinced that their governments needed to go. I think it's very fair to challenge Trump and Farage on why they set out to create chaos with no real plan. Edited January 2, 2017 by hboy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I think it's very fair to challenge Trump and Farage on why they set out to create chaos with no real plan. See, once again, you create a dilemma. What chaos, exactly? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I think it's very fair to challenge Trump and Farage on why they set out to create chaos with no real plan. See, once again, you create a dilemma. What chaos, exactly? Currently for the U.K. Instability in exchange rates Volatility in stock markets Fears over job loses in EU exporting businesses Fears over job losses in EU passportimg financial services businesses Fears over the future ability to move round Europe Fears over being locked out of EU markets where companies currently trade Increasing incidents of xenophobia For the US Fears over the right of millions of people to remain living in the US Fears over a trade war with China Fears over political and diplomatic spats with China Fears over jobs leaving the US Mass political protests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I think it's very fair to challenge Trump and Farage on why they set out to create chaos with no real plan. See, once again, you create a dilemma. What chaos, exactly? Brexit and Trump is the equivalent of putting a lit fire cracker in a paint tin and trying to predict where the paint till go. We know its going somewhere but have no idea how much and where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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