ManxTaxPayer Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 The actor John Rhys-Davies alongside and ex NF candidate in Guernsey have started an online petition, done loads of media interviews. Kicking up a stink on Facebook about the CMs of the three rejecting our vote. The actor is talking about taking it to the European Court of Justice. So yes I'd call it agitating. Impossible to disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The actor John Rhys-Davies alongside and ex NF candidate in Guernsey have started an online petition, done loads of media interviews. Kicking up a stink on Facebook about the CMs of the three rejecting our vote. The actor is talking about taking it to the European Court of Justice. So yes I'd call it agitating. There's no real logic to the Island having a vote because it has no effect, in fact, only one scenario would get the Island what it has voted for - UK votes out; Island votes out - UK leaves, Island stays out. UK votes out; Island votes in - are we going to join independently. UK votes in; Island votes out - nothing changes. But had Island voters known UK was staying in, maybe this vote would be different. UK votes in; Island votes in - Does the Island then begin negotiations to join l? Was that what voters were voting for? I'd say wait to see what the outcome of the U.K. vote is then if it is an in vote hold a vote to see if the Government is to begin negotiations for membership. But this isn't what he's asking for is it? He isn't asking for a vote on the Islands' own status in or out. He is asking for the Islands to have a vote in the UNITED KINGDOM referendum on whether the UK is in or out. This is muddled thinking since we aren't part of the UK. Remember. No taxation without representation AND no representation without taxation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 It's the mouse thinking it has a vote on whether a family buys a cat. When the family includes a hamster they'll consider its well being, but the mouse doesn't really get a look in. The question I suppose is whether the IOM's Constitutional relationship that of mouse or hamster? I'd have to go and read this again: Framework for developing the international identity of the Isle of Man But I'm too busy so I won't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 This is muddled thinking since we aren't part of the UK. I don't believe its muddled to have a say in a crucial vote whose outcome could have significant implications for us. Does anyone really still believe we are totally in charge of our own destiny 'cos we have our own gubberment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 This is muddled thinking since we aren't part of the UK. I don't believe its muddled to have a say in a crucial vote whose outcome could have significant implications for us. Does anyone really still believe we are totally in charge of our own destiny 'cos we have our own gubberment? No. But that doesn't mean that we can allocate ourselves a vote in somebody else's referendum. It's a huge can of worms which is why the Islands are studiously ignoring it. In reality the chance of us having a bearing on the result is vanishingly small given the relative populations of the Islands and the UK, but supposing it was so knife edged that we actually swung it. Imagine the fallout from tiny territories outside the UK and the EU deciding the UK's EU future. Deeper shit than just going with the flow. Gibraltar is voting but then they are in the EU so that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The actor John Rhys-Davies alongside and ex NF candidate in Guernsey have started an online petition, done loads of media interviews. Kicking up a stink on Facebook about the CMs of the three rejecting our vote. The actor is talking about taking it to the European Court of Justice. So yes I'd call it agitating. There's no real logic to the Island having a vote because it has no effect, in fact, only one scenario would get the Island what it has voted for - UK votes out; Island votes out - UK leaves, Island stays out. UK votes out; Island votes in - are we going to join independently. UK votes in; Island votes out - nothing changes. But had Island voters known UK was staying in, maybe this vote would be different. UK votes in; Island votes in - Does the Island then begin negotiations to join l? Was that what voters were voting for? I'd say wait to see what the outcome of the U.K. vote is then if it is an in vote hold a vote to see if the Government is to begin negotiations for membership. But this isn't what he's asking for is it? He isn't asking for a vote on the Islands' own status in or out. He is asking for the Islands to have a vote in the UNITED KINGDOM referendum on whether the UK is in or out. This is muddled thinking since we aren't part of the UK. Remember. No taxation without representation AND no representation without taxation. I'm not sure we're on different pages here. It's a puzzling and illogical proposition that doesn't stack up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted February 27, 2016 Author Share Posted February 27, 2016 The actor John Rhys-Davies alongside and ex NF candidate in Guernsey have started an online petition, done loads of media interviews. Kicking up a stink on Facebook about the CMs of the three rejecting our vote. The actor is talking about taking it to the European Court of Justice. So yes I'd call it agitating. Impossible to disagree with that. I wonder what he means by the European Court of Justice?? (ECJ) I think he probably means the European Court of Human Rights... The ECJ deals with disputes over EU treaties, disputes between member states and such matters as meat, bread, trade marks, ie trade issues... It also deals with employment disputes from individuals employed as EU civil servants and the like.... Voting issues where you are not in the EU and UK are not within its remit...Especially as the UK system allows you 15 years to keep registered and voting and thus having a vote in the referendum... This actor chappie reminds of those people who do not accept that they probably have no right to claim means tested social security benefits on the Island...I have met a few. They refuse to accept the Isle of Man has these differences and bang away at Markwell House...And they will not be told! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 The only answer is for Mann to become a full independent Sovereign Republic. We can then determine our relationship with the EU on our own. We don't need the british. We can be like Malta, full EU members, or come to another arrangement. Who are you going to trust to run it? Who will be the head of state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted February 27, 2016 Author Share Posted February 27, 2016 And the Isle of Man is not big or rich enough to be in the EU as a stand alone...It has not the capacity to be "acquis communitaire"...That is assume all the established laws, rules and regs, financial input etc... And don't they have a system of taking it in turns to be President"??? Who from the Isle of Man would assume the Presidency of the Council of the EU in turn??? Here's fun! Nominate a Manx politician to take his or her turn for a short stint as President of the European Council...And what might they come out with? er, EU wide dog poo campaign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Peter Karran. No contest. With a wider audience he would become a cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 And the Isle of Man is not big or rich enough to be in the EU as a stand alone...It has not the capacity to be "acquis communitaire"...That is assume all the established laws, rules and regs, financial input etc... And don't they have a system of taking it in turns to be President"??? Who from the Isle of Man would assume the Presidency of the Council of the EU in turn??? Here's fun! Nominate a Manx politician to take his or her turn for a short stint as President of the European Council...And what might they come out with? er, EU wide dog poo campaign? More importantly, no practical means of earning a living and paying its way. Finance sector would be off like a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted February 27, 2016 Author Share Posted February 27, 2016 The hidden factor in the referendum is not so much people being scared or otherwise about Brexit causing a catastrophe in the global economy... Or of any subsequent troubles for the UK economy... The real problem is the pent up dislike or hate of the EU that has been denied a safety valve for so long by way of orthodox politics... The referendum belongs to us and it is a black and white "Yes or No".... So far I think a lot of silent folk will vote "OUT" because of their pent up dislike whatever scare stories the financiers put about.....And seeing their track record in recent years I am not sure that we can trust them to get anything right anyway!... And if Brexit is such a threat then it proves that Britain still has some clout and its actions count for something.... Not the first time the British have been underestimated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 or overstated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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