Monkey boy Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The private sector have made money from it over most of those years, why couldn't the UK Government have at least broken even? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Because the government is very bad at running businesses. Can you think of anything they ever ran sucessfully? Unions, bureaucracy, inefficiency, civil servants, empire building; and nobody has an incentive to sort it out because it's just taxpayers money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Because the government is very bad at running businesses. Can you think of anything they ever ran successfully? The GPO, Rolls Royce and British Gas would be examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The Chinese Ambassador recently pointed out that the Chinese Steel Plants are relatively new and have had investment compared to the UK Steel Plants. UK Steel plants have had limited investment and in some cases are still using pre-1940 equipment. That may not be an issue if the equipment is reliable, however, you can imagine the issue with sourcing parts. Investment has been lacking through the British Steel (Government run), Corus and TATA Steel years. It is therefore no surprise that the UK Steel industry struggles to compete with modern steel making facilities. As for the Government being good at running businesses there may be some cases where they have been good but surely British Leyland must be the shining example of how badly wrong it can go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Because the government is very bad at running businesses. Can you think of anything they ever ran successfully? The GPO, Rolls Royce and British Gas would be examples. GPO was a monopoly that should have been maintained for the mail. However, even in its heyday it leaned on the money for old rope Post Office Telephones for years. 2 months wait for a phone. Rolls Royce was a Conservative nationalisation by the Heath government. It was never meant to be long term and it wasn't. British Gas was another monopoly. Anyone can run a monopoly business when you can simply gouge the customer for whatever you are spending. I don't see that translating to the vicious market in steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The Chinese Ambassador recently pointed out that the Chinese Steel Plants are relatively new and have had investment compared to the UK Steel Plants. UK Steel plants have had limited investment and in some cases are still using pre-1940 equipment. That may not be an issue if the equipment is reliable, however, you can imagine the issue with sourcing parts. Investment has been lacking through the British Steel (Government run), Corus and TATA Steel years. It is therefore no surprise that the UK Steel industry struggles to compete with modern steel making facilities. As for the Government being good at running businesses there may be some cases where they have been good but surely British Leyland must be the shining example of how badly wrong it can go. It's a shame that with all of that investment in modern plant then that the Chinese can't put out consistently good quality product. Much of it, whilst cheap, is downright dangerous. And of course don't forget the vast differential in labour costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 There is no market in steel anymore; the Chinese have destroyed it - for now. Nobody can compete with them. Which is why Port Talbot needs to be 'soft-mothballed' until the longer term can be worked out. We live in a post-capitalist era now, and the free markets (they were never really free) of the past just don't work when you have emerging super states able to flood first world markets with below cost commodities like steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The Chinese Ambassador recently pointed out that the Chinese Steel Plants are relatively new and have had investment compared to the UK Steel Plants. UK Steel plants have had limited investment and in some cases are still using pre-1940 equipment. That may not be an issue if the equipment is reliable, however, you can imagine the issue with sourcing parts. Investment has been lacking through the British Steel (Government run), Corus and TATA Steel years. It is therefore no surprise that the UK Steel industry struggles to compete with modern steel making facilities. As for the Government being good at running businesses there may be some cases where they have been good but surely British Leyland must be the shining example of how badly wrong it can go. It's a shame that with all of that investment in modern plant then that the Chinese can't put out consistently good quality product. Much of it, whilst cheap, is downright dangerous. And of course don't forget the vast differential in labour costs. I suspect it won't be long before things start to unravel in China. They produce shite, they are leveraged to the hilt and it is, IMHO, going to unwind. It's the next financial crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I suspect it won't be long before things start to unravel in China. It's the next financial crisis. ?? It's the current financial crisis. This story reminds me of two things. 1. XTC 2. Lenin said something about how capitalists would compete to sell them the rope with which they would be hanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 It's a shame that with all of that investment in modern plant then that the Chinese can't put out consistently good quality product. Much of it, whilst cheap, is downright dangerous. And of course don't forget the vast differential in labour costs. A Trade Union representative at one of TATA's UK plants told me that Chinese steel has been put through the finishing mills at TATA steel in place of the their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I suspect it won't be long before things start to unravel in China. It's the next financial crisis. ?? It's the current financial crisis. This story reminds me of two things. 1. XTC 2. Lenin said something about how capitalists would compete to sell them the rope with which they would be hanged. He just didn't foresee that his system was even worse and would collapse first. It could happen to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 there was a bit of outside interference going on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 He just didn't foresee that his system was even worse and would collapse first. It could happen to anyone. No but he is always good for a quote. Many others did correctly predict the collapse of the USSR. In Policy Challenges for the Next 50 Years, the OECD seems to be predicting an equivalent crisis within Capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 there was a bit of outside interference going on though. Really? To make it collapse? Just caved in under the weight of its own inefficiency. I saw those bread queues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 it absolutely could not be allowed to succeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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