woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 It never could succeed. Human nature dictates. Did you take a close look at those regimes? Men are not created equal and if they are forced to be they will find ways around. Idealistic and unworkable. Countries full of people with dead eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Men are not created equal and if they are forced to be they will find ways around. Idealistic and unworkable. Countries full of people with dead eyes. You're paraphrasing the American Declaration Of Independence as a critique of Marxist-Leninism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Men are not created equal and if they are forced to be they will find ways around. Idealistic and unworkable. Countries full of people with dead eyes. You're paraphrasing the American Declaration Of Independence as a critique of Marxist-Leninism? Just a statement of the way things are. I am surprised that there are still people around who believe that Marxist-Leninism is not utterly discredited as a system for society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Just a statement of the way things are. Next time you fly into the US you should definitely try telling them that you think their Declaration Of Independence is all wrong. I'm sure they will be happy to have a chat about it. I am surprised that there are still people around who believe that Marxist-Leninism is not utterly discredited as a system for society. Are you still running in to many these days? Also - it was never about people being "equal" which is much more of a liberal pattern. Marxism by contrast introduced quite unpleasant ideas around social stratification - such as, for example, their concept of the lumpenproletariat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 It was interesting to see on the news Tata's UK pension liability was 485 million for a workforce of 15000 so how many are we catering for with our 3 billion liability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweek Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 It was interesting to see on the news Tata's UK pension liability was 485 million for a workforce of 15000 so how many are we catering for with our 3 billion liability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Because the government is very bad at running businesses. Can you think of anything they ever ran sucessfully? Unions, bureaucracy, inefficiency, civil servants, empire building; and nobody has an incentive to sort it out because it's just taxpayers money. Norwegian oil industry - SNCF, there are many examples, you just have to get over your misguided view of the world with Britain at the middle of it - it is anything but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Men are not created equal and if they are forced to be they will find ways around. Idealistic and unworkable. Countries full of people with dead eyes. You're paraphrasing the American Declaration Of Independence as a critique of Marxist-Leninism? Just a statement of the way things are. I am surprised that there are still people around who believe that Marxist-Leninism is not utterly discredited as a system for society. As opposed to free market economics which is working so well in coastal South Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I am surprised that there are still people around who believe that Marxist-Leninism is not utterly discredited as a system for society. Are you still running in to many these days? As opposed to free market economics which is working so well in coastal South Wales. Well there appears to be one here on the very same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Marxist maybe, Leninist no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Men are not created equal and if they are forced to be they will find ways around. Idealistic and unworkable. Countries full of people with dead eyes. You're paraphrasing the American Declaration Of Independence as a critique of Marxist-Leninism? Much as I love the Americans, for all practical purposes, I don't believe that they hold that all men are created equal any more than I do. Demonstrably it isn't so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 there was a bit of outside interference going on though. Really? To make it collapse? Just caved in under the weight of its own inefficiency. I saw those bread queues. Surely you'd accept that American intervention played a large part in its demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 I don't think it's about that anymore Woolley. That argument was settled a long time ago. The public / private debate is too simplistic where there is no free market, and that doesn't mean that traditional State ownership and nationalisaton is necessarily the answer. If we don't find a third way, and if we lose industries like Steel, then we won't have an economy at all. What will the British economy be in ten or twenty years time ? It seems to me that we have opportunities but that will involve at least some degree of State subsidy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 there was a bit of outside interference going on though. Really? To make it collapse? Just caved in under the weight of its own inefficiency. I saw those bread queues. Surely you'd accept that American intervention played a large part in its demise. Intervention in what? Yes, they lost the cold war. Yes, they could not convince their own population about "the workers paradise". There was never the slightest possibility of the West attacking them militarily. Where there were fleeting worries of symmetrical military confrontation, it was usually as a result of Soviet adventurism outside its own territory, often to put down popular uprising in the annexed territories of Eastern Europe. I was actually quite the Communist as a young man. Like the peoples of Eastern Europe and ultimately Russia itself, I realised it was a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Because the government is very bad at running businesses. Can you think of anything they ever ran sucessfully? Unions, bureaucracy, inefficiency, civil servants, empire building; and nobody has an incentive to sort it out because it's just taxpayers money. Norwegian oil industry - SNCF, there are many examples, you just have to get over your misguided view of the world with Britain at the middle of it - it is anything but. I admire the Norwegian stewardship of their oil resource and I used to be involved in engineering supplies to Statoil so I know a bit about the sector. But again, it isn't running a competitive business in the world market. It is more careful management of a sovereign fund through share ownership and very high taxation. They've done a good job, but we must remember that they also have a low population and less pressure on resources. As for SNCF, I applaud its early adoption of high speed technology and TGV. It is however still a monopoly and definitely not a paragon of financial virtue, being deeply mired in debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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