Not a tax haven.

[pongo]

You are ignoring the lessons of history

No I'm not. And you are preaching to the choir. I don't expect to see Corbyn elected (though it could happen if they make an electoral pact with the SNP). Especially as the anti EU rabble are throwing away the Conservative lead. The Conservatives could simply lose.

 

I'm a pragmatist. And sooner or later there will be a populist Labour govt. If only in reaction to an unpopular Conservative govt. They only have to not threaten middle class England. The aspirational thing which defined the Thatcher and Blair years no longer exists. Many feel that they are losing out in an economy which, rightly or wrongly, seems unfair.

 

Being seen to 'deal with' the tax havens (however misguided or misplaced the thinking - and irrespective of the rights and wrongs) would very likely be relatively popular policy.

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by pongo

[Roger Mexico]

If you actually read IOM Newspaper's piece, rather than just the headline, it's clear that the threat is very conditional.:

 

Mr Corbyn said offshore jurisdictions should be told: ‘Hang on, you are a government of a British dependent territory, a Crown territory, you must obey UK tax law, you must not become a harbour for tax avoidance and tax evasion.’

He said there was precedent for direct rule to be imposed. He said: ‘The point is that they are not independent territories. They are self-governing, yes, but they are British crown dependent territories. Therefore, surely, there has to be an observance of UK tax law in those places.

‘If they have become a place for systematic evasion and short-changing the public in this country, then something has to be done about it. Either those governments comply or a next step has to be taken.’

He said this could be done ‘almost immediately’.

Of course 'obeying UK tax law' is exactly what we claim to be doing and there's an IOM government statement further down the page saying exactly that (apparently someone's woken up in Cabinet Office).

There may actually be an opportunity for the Crown Dependencies here as it is clearly the British Overseas Territories that are mainly being discussed here. It is also a lot easier for the UK Government to control the BOTs who don't have many centuries of law and precedent to unwind in a takeover. The precedent of the Turks and Caicos which Murphy refers to applies mainly to them.

[woolley]

 

You are ignoring the lessons of history

No I'm not. And you are preaching to the choir. I don't expect to see Corbyn elected (though it could happen if they make an electoral pact with the SNP). Especially the anti EU rabble are throwing away the Conservative lead. The Conservatives could simply lose.

 

I'm a pragmatist. And sooner or later there will be a populist Labour govt. If only in reaction to an unpopular Conservative govt. They only have to not threaten middle class England. The aspirational thing which defined the Thatcher and Blair years no longer exists. Many feel that they are losing out in an economy which, rightly or wrongly, seems unfair.

 

Being seen to 'deal with' the tax havens (however misguided or misplaced the thinking - and irrespective of the rights and wrongs) would very likely be relatively popular policy.

 

 

Don't forget that the Tory infighting over Europe has been going on for decades and was at its height in the early 90s when they were still winning elections. Blair saw that he could only win if he didn't frighten the horses, so he embarked on his centrist "do nothing" project and won 3 elections. The problem now is that in the eyes of the middle classes Labour do pose a threat. The left wing "it's all so unfair" brigade make a lot of noise on social media and convince themselves that the rest of the country shares their view. It doesn't. Their genuine shock at the 2015 election result when the silent majority rejected their "tablets of stone" manifesto is an illustration of this.

[oldmanxfella]

Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Murphy call for direct rule of British Territories!

 

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/corbyn-demands-direct-control-1-7836034

 

Okay you pair, you are now responsible for Health, Education, Infrastructure, law and order, housing, benefits and social care, jobs and employment for an additional 85,000 people living in a very remote part of the British Isles. What will that lot cost you?

 

Very interesting to note that the UK seems to be named in 148 instances in the leaked documents, the Isle of Man, just eight!

I actually quite like Corbyn and his statement is give or take correct as what is happening here is entirely legal under the tax laws of the UK so consequently we're unlikely to have our Parliament usurped as his statement is quite carefully worded. Murphy on the other hand is just a sanctimonious moon-faced wankshaft.

[pongo]

Don't forget that the Tory infighting over Europe has been going on for decades and was at its height in the early 90s when they were still winning elections. Blair saw that he could only win if he didn't frighten the horses, so he embarked on his centrist "do nothing" project and won 3 elections. The problem now is that in the eyes of the middle classes Labour do pose a threat. The left wing "it's all so unfair" brigade make a lot of noise on social media and convince themselves that the rest of the country shares their view. It doesn't. Their genuine shock at the 2015 election result when the silent majority rejected their "tablets of stone" manifesto is an illustration of this.

It would be daft for the IOM, or anyone else, to bet on Labour remaining unelectable. It's populism which poses the threat today. Not the left.

[Tarne]

Don't forget that the Tory infighting over Europe has been going on for decades and was at its height in the early 90s when they were still winning elections. Blair saw that he could only win if he didn't frighten the horses, so he embarked on his centrist "do nothing" project and won 3 elections. The problem now is that in the eyes of the middle classes Labour do pose a threat. The left wing "it's all so unfair" brigade make a lot of noise on social media and convince themselves that the rest of the country shares their view. It doesn't. Their genuine shock at the 2015 election result when the silent majority rejected their "tablets of stone" manifesto is an illustration of this.

 

 

 

Woolley, you're so right. If all you can hear is shouting for one candidate, you're missing out on what the other side is doing.

 

I think the people on here saying "Well, we still like Corbyn" even after he wants to take away the semblance of Independence that we have just show how thick they truly are - you're turkeys voting for Christmas fellas. Labour will have dropped even further in the eyes of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland who value their self governance highly too.

[the stinking enigma]

an ethical turkey would vote for christmas

[woolley]

 

Don't forget that the Tory infighting over Europe has been going on for decades and was at its height in the early 90s when they were still winning elections. Blair saw that he could only win if he didn't frighten the horses, so he embarked on his centrist "do nothing" project and won 3 elections. The problem now is that in the eyes of the middle classes Labour do pose a threat. The left wing "it's all so unfair" brigade make a lot of noise on social media and convince themselves that the rest of the country shares their view. It doesn't. Their genuine shock at the 2015 election result when the silent majority rejected their "tablets of stone" manifesto is an illustration of this.

It would be daft for the IOM, or anyone else, to bet on Labour remaining unelectable. It's populism which poses the threat today. Not the left.

 

I quite agree with your first sentence. Vigilance is insurance. Take nothing for granted and always expect the unexpected. In my previous posts I was merely taking up the theme of Labour's future electoral prospects.

[woolley]

I would though maintain that Labour's prospects of electoral success on Corbyn's watch, or that of anyone like him, are slim to nil.

[pongo]

Vigilance is insurance. Take nothing for granted and always expect the unexpected. In my previous posts I was merely taking up the theme of Labour's future electoral prospects.

A future Labour govt is inevitable. In order to be electable it will need to appeal both to the left and to the centre without unduly disturbing the centre-right. Being seen to be tough on something which many people perceive as unfair would not be unpopular.

 

Let's be clear. I'm not a Corbyn supporter, I am pro the IOM and I think a lot of nonsense is talked about tax havens. But I am also a pragmatist and can see how it seems from the outside.

 

he wants to take away the semblance of Independence etc

A semblance of independence is not actually an end in itself is it?

[woolley]

A semblance of independence is what has worked for us for many years. Fully in the UK wouldn't work and total sovereign independence wouldn't work. To that extent it is an end in itself.

[hillshepherd]

 

Vigilance is insurance. Take nothing for granted and always expect the unexpected. In my previous posts I was merely taking up the theme of Labour's future electoral prospects.

A future Labour govt is inevitable. In order to be electable it will need to appeal both to the left and to the centre without unduly disturbing the centre-right. Being seen to be tough on something which many people perceive as unfair would not be unpopular.

 

Let's be clear. I'm not a Corbyn supporter, I am pro the IOM and I think a lot of nonsense is talked about tax havens. But I am also a pragmatist and can see how it seems from the outside.

 

he wants to take away the semblance of Independence etc

A semblance of independence is not actually an end in itself is it?

 

WHAT fucking independance?

[Uhtred]

 

 

To be fair who cares what Corbyn says?

 

It's a bit like caring about what Milliband was saying. No one gives a fuck because you won't ever see power. It's empty talk from an opposition struggling for seat at the table.

 

 

The longer Labour is out of power, the more aggressive they will be when they do finally get in. Which is, ultimately, inevitable.

You are ignoring the lessons of history. Labour was turfed out in 1979 on the back of the winter of discontent. Then there was the Militant Tendency infiltration and Michael Foot's leadership which made them utterly unelectable. There were the usual voices of "we're not left wing enough", just as we have heard recently and the decline continued. Kinnock did a lot of the spadework to drag the rabble back from the abyss, but they were still rejected in 1992 in favour of Major. Only when Blair came along and turned them into Tory-lite was a majority prepared to back them. It will be a similar story this time. Britain is fundamentally a right wing country. It cannot be governed from the far left.

I would agree with pretty well all of that assessment Woolley with the exception of the statement that Britain is a right-wing country. It's just slightly right of centre, that's all. But too far right for Foot/Kinnock/Milliband and certainly Corbyn. (I think the electorate rejected Brown because (a) they were simply pissed off with Blair/Labour and (b) Brown was clearly a nasty, humourless twat, rather than him necessarily being too left wing).

[notwell]

It's about being sellable to the voting public. Blair was. Brown wasn't. Milliband wasn't.

 

I've always thought Portillo would make a great figure head for any party.

[woolley]

As the exception that proves the rule he probably would have been seen as too right wing in his political heyday. However, it is now clear that it was just an affectation and not the real Portillo.