woolley Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 corbyn is only a reflection of how far the other side have gone. when ian duncan smith is resigning in tears you know something must be wrong I suppose it's more interesting than having all parties standing on one square inch in the centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) I think you are trying to make something out of nothing. The bottom line is that the information is all there and perfectly available. If I want to know anything about a company I can find it. I know, because I did exactly that recently. Also, I don't think it should be simple for people to access a persons data just because they are fucking nosey. Whereas now it's like finding a needle in a haystack. And yet it allows the likes of Bell and Teare et al to say, as you did: "...the information is all there and perfectly available". i think you are intentionally missing the point about this whole subject. The Isle of Man is even more of a secrecy jurisdiction than it was 10 years ago. (But hey, it's just to stop nosey people) Does anyone have a right to privacy any longer, or does everything have to be open and transparent to anyone who cares to look? Article 8 of the Human Rights Act states that "Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence". So if I'm in business and own shares in a legitimate company, why should anyone (other than tax and law enforcement) be able to look at what shares in that company I might own? What business is it of anyone else, any more than the balance of my bank account. It is no-one's business. And privacy is not always about tax evasion. Is the King of Saudi Arabia really avoiding tax by using a BVI company? Stretching the analogy, what if I am a business person in the fictional country of Volgaria and I have earned / saved a modest pension nest-egg, denominated in that safe and secure currency the British Pound, on which tax has been paid in Volgaria, and which is earning a nice rate of interest at the Bank of Volgaria. Now lets say that the Volgarian government decides to seize all British Pounds in the country and replace them with Volgarian Pesos at an exchange rate of its choosing. Or worse, I am accused of being a Bolshevik, profiteering from my hard working comrades by disloyally holding onto a foreign currency, and I am rounded up for compulsory re-education at a far away work camp. So being aware of these risks, rather than invest my hard earned Pounds in the Bank of Volgaria, I set up a company in the sunny Virgin Islands and put my Pounds into a bank account in the Isle of Man. My retirement fund will be safe, I think. Until the day arrives that information on my Volgarian residency becomes freely available to anyone with an itchy nose, or the Volgarians and Manx governments enter into a tax information sharing agreement, or until information is leaked by those clever newspaper people, putting my business in Volgaria - perhaps even my life, at risk. Far fetched? Couldn't happen? Perhaps not today, but look at your history and who knows about a few years hence by when our freedoms and privacy will have been eroded by successive governments, beyond redemption . As Karellen states - this does happen. I know of people who work in potentially unstable countries who pay ALL their proper taxes in that country. The personal money they have left is banked here, via Corporate Service Providers - because they have genuine fears that the regime could find ways of stealing it from them. Genuine fears of doors being burst open at night, genuine fears of corrupt leaders being aware of their wealth and finding ways of putting it in their pockets. Some of these people are not multi millionaires, just people concerned that the corruption in their country could take away what they have saved. Edited April 7, 2016 by Lawnmower 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 We are not a tax haven, we are a safe haven! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I think you are trying to make something out of nothing. The bottom line is that the information is all there and perfectly available. If I want to know anything about a company I can find it. I know, because I did exactly that recently. Also, I don't think it should be simple for people to access a persons data just because they are fucking nosey. Whereas now it's like finding a needle in a haystack. And yet it allows the likes of Bell and Teare et al to say, as you did: "...the information is all there and perfectly available". i think you are intentionally missing the point about this whole subject. The Isle of Man is even more of a secrecy jurisdiction than it was 10 years ago. (But hey, it's just to stop nosey people) Does anyone have a right to privacy any longer, or does everything have to be open and transparent to anyone who cares to look? Article 8 of the Human Rights Act states that "Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence". So if I'm in business and own shares in a legitimate company, why should anyone (other than tax and law enforcement) be able to look at what shares in that company I might own? What business is it of anyone else, any more than the balance of my bank account. It is no-one's business. And privacy is not always about tax evasion. Is the King of Saudi Arabia really avoiding tax by using a BVI company? Stretching the analogy, what if I am a business person in the fictional country of Volgaria and I have earned / saved a modest pension nest-egg, denominated in that safe and secure currency the British Pound, on which tax has been paid in Volgaria, and which is earning a nice rate of interest at the Bank of Volgaria. Now lets say that the Volgarian government decides to seize all British Pounds in the country and replace them with Volgarian Pesos at an exchange rate of its choosing. Or worse, I am accused of being a Bolshevik, profiteering from my hard working comrades by disloyally holding onto a foreign currency, and I am rounded up for compulsory re-education at a far away work camp. So being aware of these risks, rather than invest my hard earned Pounds in the Bank of Volgaria, I set up a company in the sunny Virgin Islands and put my Pounds into a bank account in the Isle of Man. My retirement fund will be safe, I think. Until the day arrives that information on my Volgarian residency becomes freely available to anyone with an itchy nose, or the Volgarians and Manx governments enter into a tax information sharing agreement, or until information is leaked by those clever newspaper people, putting my business in Volgaria - perhaps even my life, at risk. Far fetched? Couldn't happen? Perhaps not today, but look at your history and who knows about a few years hence by when our freedoms and privacy will have been eroded by successive governments, beyond redemption . As Karellen states - this does happen. I know of people who work in potentially unstable countries who pay ALL their proper taxes in that country. The personal money they have left is banked here, via Corporate Service Providers - because they have genuine fears that the regime could find ways of stealing it from them. Genuine fears of doors being burst open at night, genuine fears of corrupt leaders being aware of their wealth and finding ways of putting it in their pockets. Some of these people are not multi millionaires, just people concerned that the corruption in their country could take away what they have saved. Sounds a bit like the UK and HMRC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 The IoM has always relied on something. You'd have been crowing 60 years ago we were over reliant on tourism. We were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 We are not a tax haven, we are a safe haven! We are a shaven haven. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 The IoM has always relied on something. You'd have been crowing 60 years ago we were over reliant on tourism. We were! Indeed. And before that it was spuds and herring. We are an island with limited resources, people and opportunities. There was a time where our finance sector mainly consisted of banks. That evolved too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I do not see the relevance of a hit parade of mentions in the MF papers. This whole thing has opened a window into the offshore activities of various people/entities. The investigators and pressure groups are only too aware that MF is just one organisation based in one territory who has been hacked. There are many others out there. This is not a representative sample by any means. But it is not one territory is it? Panama was the hub for numerous offices throughout the world. Were they hacked from the outside? One report I have read quotes a conversation about conditions applying to the leak and personal security for the leaker. Back to the ICIJ website for more research tonight, I feel, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 If this follows the pattern of previous leaks and hacks the leaked material will very quickly end up online in a searchable format. That is possibly partly why British banks have been given such a short deadline to disclose any links with Mossack Fonseca. These leaks are clearly part of an agenda based on the perspective that all data should be open. Which is a horrible idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 are you suggesting a conspiracy pongo? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 are you suggesting a conspiracy pongo? Ho ho. No. But it's clearly agenda-lead. Lots of people wrongly believe that open-everything is a tremendously good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) If this follows the pattern of previous leaks and hacks the leaked material will very quickly end up online in a searchable format. That is possibly partly why British banks have been given such a short deadline to disclose any links with Mossack Fonseca. These leaks are clearly part of an agenda based on the perspective that all data should be open. Which is a horrible idea. The most interesting thing to me is that given Panama's popularity on the other side of the Atlantic and its known trading links with lawyers, tax advisors and business advisors across Latin America, Central America, and the USA not one U.S. Politician or business leader appears to have been caught up in any leak. The focus seems to have been exclusively on exposing the activities of Russians and other nationalities which are decidedly anti West. Maybe the European press aren't interested in exposing U.S. linked persons, but you would expect a provider on the side of the world that is also home to Delaware, Cayman, Bermuda etc, as well as Panama, to have had more than its fair share of U.S clients who would have got caught up in this mess. Edited April 7, 2016 by thesultanofsheight 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Panama Papers: Why Aren’t There More American Names? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweek Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 CIA initiated leak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Panama Papers: Why Aren’t There More American Names? None of the explanations in there are that plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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