Not a tax haven.

[Non-Believer]

Has the line we will not cross been crossed now, then....?

[JessTickle]

 

 

However, any managed from here will be subject to the normal regulatory requirements of know your client, etc.

Ooooh, right. Everything should be fine and dandy then!

I'm not saying everything will be ticketeyboo, but a Panamanian company run by a CSP here will be subject to the same regulation as an IOM company, BVI company, UK company, Irish company (I could list more), also run from here.

 

 

MF are not a licenced CSP on the IOM so this will not be the case

[hagar the horrible]

We are not a tax haven

 

 

We should be triple D rated

 

 

Dodgy Dealings Dependency

[WTF]

 

 

However, any managed from here will be subject to the normal regulatory requirements of know your client, etc.

Ooooh, right. Everything should be fine and dandy then!

I'm not saying everything will be ticketeyboo, but a Panamanian company run by a CSP here will be subject to the same regulation as an IOM company, BVI company, UK company, Irish company (I could list more), also run from here.

 

 

just because an outfit is subject to regulation doesn't mean they are complying with them.

[woolley]

The whole thing is pretty small beer really though isn't it? For the Worldwide Murphy Mob I mean. For all of that info and millions of documents, and the attention it's getting, you would think all of the G7 leaders, multi-national company owners and rich celebs would be involved. But no. A few Middle East sheiks, a bloke from Iceland, some of Putin's henchmen from what I hear. A real rag-tag of also rans. So are they making a mountain out of a molehill?

 

No doubt the conspiracy theorists will tell us that the big boys have covered their tracks too well to get caught.

[notwell]

The whole thing is pretty small beer really though isn't it? For the Worldwide Murphy Mob I mean. For all of that info and millions of documents, and the attention it's getting, you would think all of the G7 leaders, multi-national company owners and rich celebs would be involved. But no. A few Middle East sheiks, a bloke from Iceland, some of Putin's henchmen from what I hear. A real rag-tag of also rans. So are they making a mountain out of a molehill?

 

No doubt the conspiracy theorists will tell us that the big boys have covered their tracks too well to get caught.

 

A few ME rulers who have nothing to hide based on the fact that there is no tax in those countries (because they set the rules and own the country and resources) and it's common knowledge the ME in general has trillions of pounds worth of assets all round the world. Jes' how much of London (and the USA) do they own?

 

From what I saw in that article the Isle of Man doesn't get mentioned. And whilst I've no doubt Panama will have a lot to answer for it appears all the doom mongers are simply jumping on the band wagon and assuming the IOM must be one of the main culprits.

[Bellefield]

 

The whole thing is pretty small beer really though isn't it? For the Worldwide Murphy Mob I mean. For all of that info and millions of documents, and the attention it's getting, you would think all of the G7 leaders, multi-national company owners and rich celebs would be involved. But no. A few Middle East sheiks, a bloke from Iceland, some of Putin's henchmen from what I hear. A real rag-tag of also rans. So are they making a mountain out of a molehill?

 

No doubt the conspiracy theorists will tell us that the big boys have covered their tracks too well to get caught.

 

A few ME rulers who have nothing to hide based on the fact that there is no tax in those countries (because they set the rules and own the country and resources) and it's common knowledge the ME in general has trillions of pounds worth of assets all round the world. Jes' how much of London (and the USA) do they own?

 

From what I saw in that article the Isle of Man doesn't get mentioned. And whilst I've no doubt Panama will have a lot to answer for it appears all the doom mongers are simply jumping on the band wagon and assuming the IOM must be one of the main culprits.

 

I don't think anyone believes this, at least not anyone who is aware of the island's regulatory system, but the issue is that whenever "tax havens" get mentioned the same old list is rolled out, and it will include the Isle of Man, regardless of whether or not we are complicit in any way to what has been happening in other jurisdictions.

 

All offshore financial centres get tarred with the same brush, especially by the papers, and there is no upside for Cameron et al to say that the Isle of Man is clean. Why would they say that, when for all he knows the next scandal could be from here (or the UK, or anywhere).

 

So he will play to the crowd, promising tighter reforms in crown dependencies and putting pressure on them to provide even more information on their clients. It will accelerate processes that are already under discussion and if they are delivered then Cameron can take credit for them.

 

And as to whether its small beer, it wont be to the vast majority of the public in Iceland, Russia, India, ME, Australia, etc. as they will see it as the tip of the iceberg, this is just one company that has been breached, and there are many others in Panama and elsewhere, who are all doing the same (in their eyes).

 

It sounds like some of this data has been leaked in batches for over a year to various jurisdictions and investigations are all well underway, but putting them out there in the public eye, we will no doubt see a lot more investigations and press coverage of those involved.

[pongo]

The whole thing is pretty small beer really though isn't it? For the Worldwide Murphy Mob I mean. For all of that info and millions of documents, and the attention it's getting, you would think all of the G7 leaders, multi-national company owners and rich celebs would be involved. But no. A few Middle East sheiks, a bloke from Iceland, some of Putin's henchmen from what I hear. A real rag-tag of also rans. So are they making a mountain out of a molehill?

 

No doubt the conspiracy theorists will tell us that the big boys have covered their tracks too well to get caught.

With respect, I think you are missing the point of this story and, more importantly, the message it reinforces in most people's minds. Like it nor not, rightly or wrongly, this story will be perceived as being about how people like Putin and Assad use tax havens - that tax havens are associated with people like Putin and Assad. It's therefore also, indirectly, about the business of company secrecy and tax avoidance in general. The implication is that only shady business demands offshore secrecy.

 

It doesn't matter that London or Luxembourg, or probably everywhere else, is, to some extent, a tax haven. That argument has been lost. This is about what small semi private jurisdictions do. And the way in which the world perceives them as being rogue outsiders. From a reporting point of view, the more private a thing seems, the more attention it will inevitably get. Secrecy, inevitably, attracts attention. That has been one of the great mistakes - the tax havens, by seeming like tax havens, are their own worst enemy.

 

 

From what I saw in that article the Isle of Man doesn't get mentioned.

It makes no difference whether or not the IOM is directly implicated in this story. From the public perception and political perspective, it's all the same.

Edited April 4, 2016 by pongo

[Tweek]

These stories will just trickle out I suspect, in dribs and drabs, with continued promises of more to come.

 

Remember, the Guardian and others did that before, with Wiki and other leaks.

 

They haven't done all this investigative journalism work simply to release it for one newspaper issue.

[Barrie Stevens]

Daily Mail (Naturally!) states that David Cameron will come under great pressure take serious action and to abolish the tax havens including Channel Islands and Isle of Man...Mmm?...

 

However, most folk will not care a fig for the constitutional niceties and/or regulation and will in my experience declare that Crown Dependencies are British territory and the tax should be the same as in UK (Even though Scotland now has the power to vary its tax)...

 

However, listening on BBC World Service I note that the principle of total disclosure as to ultimate beneficiaries has suddenly come to the fore! Could come riding in on the back of the Panamanian business...

[Barrie Stevens]

Conspiracy theory Number 62,874! The UK will vote Brexit and part of the deal with the EU will include selling the Crown Dependencies down river in some way or other for a trade (including the City) and migration accommodation ie thrown to the lions! The EU has long regarded the Islands as artificially supported offshore counties anyway...Stranger things have happened.

[JessTickle]

Mossack Fonseca are not a licenced CSP on the Isle of Man. They are not required to be as they only sell to licence holders and not the general public

 

A large number of CSP's will use them for the likes of BVI incorporations/registered office/registered agent so this is where the IOM is going to get dragged into it. There will be clients of IOM CSP's whose information has been obtained.

 

From the statistics on ICIJ website the IOM has the 8th highest number of intermediaries that use MF services.

[oldmanxfella]

From what I saw in that article the Isle of Man doesn't get mentioned. And whilst I've no doubt Panama will have a lot to answer for it appears all the doom mongers are simply jumping on the band wagon and assuming the IOM must be one of the main culprits.

FFS do you work for the DED? If not they want to sign you up. Your unswerving belief that all is fine and dandy in absolutely every situation to do with the Manx finance or gaming sector because it's regulated is naive to say the least.

[Non-Believer]

It's going to boil back down to the legal vs moral debate again.

 

These practices and structures may well be legal.

 

As to the morals, make your own judgements. I suspect that somebody else will make the final decisions in coming months and years?

 

ETA. The report I saw on BBC News last night hinted at billions worth of money laundering as well. That's not legal. Or moral?

Edited April 4, 2016 by Non-Believer

[notwell]

OMF - I didn't say everything was fine. Or have a belief that everything is perfect all the time. It could be argued you're negative about everything.

It's just a little boring that clueless you assume Putin hides a load of cash here.

 

And pointing out some of the sensationalist bullshit - Middle East leaders - fucking hell, they OWN their country. Who exactly are the rulers of Saudi answerable to in their country for their own money? Themselves.

 

In the wider picture of course there is a focus on "tax havens". But the reality is that Panama and several other areas really cannot be compared to the Isle of Man. The reality is the IOM has bent over (or been bent over) and done everything possible over the last 10 years or more to comply with numerous directives and undertake a huge amount of exchange agreements.