thesultanofsheight Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 It's going to boil back down to the legal vs moral debate again. These practices and structures may well be legal. As to the morals, make your own judgements. I suspect that somebody else will make the final decisions in coming months and years? ETA. The report I saw on BBC News last night hinted at billions worth of money laundering as well. That's not legal. Or moral? I've always said that you can't have a moral debate over paying taxes. If it's legal not to pay a tax who in their right mind would pay more than they would have to? Taxes are spent on some pretty unsavoury activities too; like killing children in Syria for instance. This is wider than that though as it will drag in people like Putin and the unsavoury practices of people who, ironically, are statemen and elected officials around the world. You know - the ones who are pushing anti money laundering laws and framing tax fairness policies in the media directed at the average gullible socialist leaning Joe Public These are people who also want to close down places like the IOM so that they can still obtain secrecy for their own cash elsewhere. It's a double bluff. There is no such thing as tax fairness as the people at the top of the tree trying to get these initiatives adopted are some of the most conflicted and corrupt people you will ever meet. Tax fairness suits them as their Exchequers' collect even more from Joe Public which means they can salt more away in places that are ten times worse than the IOM. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) "If it's legal not to pay a tax who in their right mind would pay more than they would have to?" Exactly. I'm all for paying less tax IF I can. Edited April 4, 2016 by notwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 "If it's legal not to pay a tax who in their right mind would pay more than they would have to?" Exactly. I'm all for paying less tax is I can. Clearly there was a lot less tax money spent on your education. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 The more money you have, the more options are open to you in those tax-paying decisions. For millions and millions more, there are fewer or no options. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) "If it's legal not to pay a tax who in their right mind would pay more than they would have to?" Exactly. I'm all for paying less tax is I can. Yes, but this is wider than that. The IOM for all its alleged sins isn't really that much of an issue in the world of international finance. It's a finance sector lite in many ways. But this sort of thing really doesn't help because now it will be the perception in the media that everyone is laundering cash for Putin and hiding assets for all these other world leaders etc which is far from the truth. The debate will be driven in the very countries those world leaders preside over too; which is somewhat ironic. The whole emerging tax fairness bandwagon is smoke and mirrors to me as there is nothing fair about anyone paying taxes rich or poor. You now have people sat at the top of these counties, and world leaders sat on top of global policy making units, saying to the socialist leading amongst the population that there should be tax fairness and everyone should be obligated to pay their way for the common good of all when those people themselves are the worst offenders and when the governments they run are grossly mis spending taxpayers money. It just means that everyone will be forced to pay more tax which will be syphoned off or mis spent. It won't change world poverty, or transform anyone else's life. People will just end up paying more into corrupted tax systems to keep them going. The focus is in the wrong place. This is bad for a whole host of reasons but as usual the wrong people will be the ones who suffer. Edited April 4, 2016 by thesultanofsheight 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 "If it's legal not to pay a tax who in their right mind would pay more than they would have to?" Exactly. I'm all for paying less tax is I can. Clearly there was a lot less tax money spent on your education. Probably the same as yours. And with you, that has returned nothing more than a load of sock puppets banging on about Blair/Bush, legal tax avoidance being the root of all evil and Islamic State terrorists being the aggrieved party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) The whole emerging tax fairness bandwagon is smoke and mirrors etc If the road is only going in one direction it would be stupid to try to drive the other way. No matter that you think it should be different. Edited April 4, 2016 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) The whole emerging tax fairness bandwagon is smoke and mirrors etcIf the road is only going in one direction it would be stupid to try to drive the other way. No matter that you think it should. I'm not advocating that anyone does swim the other way. But I'm harking back to TV publicity the IOM was unwittingly dragged into a few months ago and saying that people are naive if they believe that "fairness" means any change for the poor, or the vulnerable, or to society as a whole. It just means the tax and political system will remain as corrupt as it always has been, and that it will remain overseen by corrupt leaders, but there will be a false "moral" string pulled in the media to encourage people to pay more into it. Cameron did it this morning. He's trying to re-cut his whole relationship with the EU as it wastes billions of UK tax money a year on nothing - but apparently morally people have to pay more into the wasteful tax system he's trying to partially extract the UK from in the meantime. It doesnt make sense to have a moral debate over paying taxes when you also admit that infinitely more billions are lost on absolutely nothing at the opposite end. Edited April 4, 2016 by thesultanofsheight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 If the road is only going in one direction it would be stupid to try to drive the other way. No matter that you think it should. I'm not advocating that anyone does swim the other way. So, this road is underwater then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 "If it's legal not to pay a tax who in their right mind would pay more than they would have to?" Exactly. I'm all for paying less tax IF I can. and that is the catch, government need to close the loopholes because nowadays people a lot further down the ladder than intended are avoiding tax, if they actually close all the loopholes it makes an entire industry redundant, the people at the top don't want to close loopholes and loose the industry, answers on a postcard ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 It doesnt make sense to have a moral debate over paying taxes when you also admit that infinitely more billions are lost on absolutely nothing at the opposite end. Pragmatically it's pointless arguing that we wish things were different. Public opinion is deeply suspicious of all things offshore. That will drive popular policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bees Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 How will it? It's like the EU civil servants and their income tax, they make the rules, we suck it up. Nothing will change, it's nice to think it might but no no, the golden goose eggs are not for breaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 "If it's legal not to pay a tax who in their right mind would pay more than they would have to?" Exactly. I'm all for paying less tax is I can. Clearly there was a lot less tax money spent on your education. Probably the same as yours.And with you, that has returned nothing more than a load of sock puppets banging on about Blair/Bush, legal tax avoidance being the root of all evil and Islamic State terrorists being the aggrieved party. If that is what you have taken away from my posts then you are thicker than I thought. And I don't need a sock puppet to point out your particular brand of idiocy. One account is more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 ...nowadays people a lot further down the ladder than intended are avoiding tax... Can't have everyone playing to the same rules now, that is unfair... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Well it would be unfair so for once you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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