rmanx Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 JEALOUSY Jealous that I can't write the rules to suit my financial needs? Who isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 That's democracy. The secret is to understand the system and make it work for you. Standing in the street with a banner or throwing bricks at banks (much as it may make you feel better) achieves nothing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 That's democracy. The secret is to understand the system and make it work for you. Standing in the street with a banner or throwing bricks at banks (much as it may make you feel better) achieves nothing. Actually that is a dictatorship. I'll get right on to becoming prime minister so I can change the rules. Oh wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 That's democracy. The secret is to understand the system and make it work for you. Standing in the street with a banner or throwing bricks at banks (much as it may make you feel better) achieves nothing. Actually that is a dictatorship. I'll get right on to becoming prime minister so I can change the rules. Oh wait... But think that through. If everyone got on to the PM to change the rules you'd have 60 odd million different versions from feudalism to anarchy to sharia law, so that's a silly idea. Everyone thinks they are right. The problem with the left is that they genuinely believe the majority share their views and it simply isn't so. It's just that they have the most time on their hands to spend convincing each other, particularly on social media, while everyone else is getting on with life and doing something useful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Jealous that I can't write the rules to suit my financial needs? Who isn't? Have those rules changed since he became pm then? Didn't know that.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 JEALOUSY Jealous that I can't write the rules to suit my financial needs? Who isn't? yes, but that wouldn't make any difference to you. You are too concerned about what others are doing. I'm certainly not jealous. Like most, I don't care. I'm happy that people can pay as little or as much tax as they are supposed to within the framework provided by government. And if that means my next door neighbour pays less than me then good on him/her. I don't see how Cameron has altered any rules since he came into power other than in a manner than should please you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 This is true. This government and the coalition before it have done more to clamp down on tax evasion than Labour did in 13 years. Of course, that was not difficult seeing as Labour did nothing at all. In fact they encouraged it. They simply weren't interested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 The main evasion exists under their noses in the building industry. They've conveniently tried to merge evasion with legitimate avoidance though and that is where the public are being lied to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 and theirin lies notwell's version of morality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) They've conveniently tried to merge evasion with legitimate avoidance though and that is where the public are being lied to.I think it is more the case that govt policy is moving towards popular public opinion - and most people see little difference between so-called evasion and complicated but technically legal avoidance. To most people that difference seems pedantic. Clearly there is little doubt that policy will follow popular opinion. I am not arguing the rights or wrongs of this. I wish that politics were not populist. But to claim, as some try, that ISAs or National Savings are equivalent to loophole based tax avoidance, is a going to be useless in the face of popular public opinion and therefore the direction of govt policy. Edited April 21, 2016 by pongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 and theirin lies notwell's version of morality It isn't a moral argument though. I'm just happy people abide by the rules. I do. And i'll be looking to get as much as I can of the tax i pay this year, back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 They've conveniently tried to merge evasion with legitimate avoidance though and that is where the public are being lied to.I think it is more the case that govt policy is moving towards popular public opinion - and most people see little difference between so-called evasion and complicated but technically legal avoidance. To most people that difference seems pedantic. Clearly there is little doubt that policy will follow popular opinion. I am not arguing the rights or wrongs of this. I wish that politics were not populist. But to claim, as some try, that ISAs or National Savings are equivalent to loophole based tax avoidance, is a going to be useless in the face of popular public opinion and therefore the direction of govt policy. I still believe the vast majority of folk have no interest whatsoever in it. It isn't going to define who wins an election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 @ Pongo: I don't have the same confidence as you that government policy necessarily follows popular opinion. If anything, the media is used cunningly to try to bend the latter towards the former. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) I still believe the vast majority of folk have no interest whatsoever in it. It isn't going to define who wins an election. Directly, perhaps no. But indirectly yes. It was a perception of "sleaze" which ultimately put the Conservatives out of power for many years. The potential for something similar exists again today. And there is a strong possiblity of the Conservative Party descending into chaos after the EU vote - perhaps especially if the UK votes to remain within the EU. That would potentially leave the way open for Labour and the SNP to collapse an unpopular govt with a no-confidence vote. The fixed term rules do not exclude this. The govt risks support if it argues for tight fiscal policy whilst being perceived as being relaxed about tax avoidance by business and the wealthy. This is one of a variety of reasons why I believe govt policy and popular public opinion will be increasingly aligned. There is also the fact that it is in the Treasury's best interest to collect whatever it can. There is also always going to be an economic case for bringing offshore business back to London. Especially given what has been lost to Dublin in recent years. I am not arguing the rights or wrongs of this. It's about being pragmatic. Edited April 21, 2016 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweek Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 There was a massive electoral swing to the SNP after the referendum in Scotland. You think UKIP would benefit the same way, when they vote to stay in Pongo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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