Junior doctors' strike: All-out stoppage 'a bleak day'

[woolley]

This second page of comments has turned into a shambles.

Well at least we got to page 2. Some threads disintegrate before halfway on the first.

[rmanx]

This second page of comments has turned into a shambles. What are you on about, comparing pilots and doctors, any rich idiot can be a pilot.

 

Back on topic - junior doctors do get massively overworked but so do other professions. If they don't like it, do another profession. Oh wait they won't, because they want the big bucks that comes with being a doctor. That's all it is.

 

Their strike still won't have the desired effect but may get concessions so let them crack on. It's not a conspiracy to shut the nhs, because thats just bullshit.

I'd rather the guy performing emergency medical procedures on me wasnt at the end of a 50-60 hours shift.

 

And of course its a conspiracy to shut the NHS, you only have to look at some of the Tory donors and which boards they sit on to see the end goal in all this.

[woolley]

So why do they pour more and more additional money into it every year? The facts don't bear out any notion that the government is trying to "shut down" the NHS. It's a sacred cow. It's politically impossible to shut it down.

[rmanx]

So why do they pour more and more additional money into it every year? The facts don't bear out any notion that the government is trying to "shut down" the NHS. It's a sacred cow. It's politically impossible to shut it down.

"Look no matter how much money we pour into it, it just wont work. Therefore we have to shut the NHS. We just happen to have a plan for how you can pay for your healthcare, but please ignore the fact I sit on the board of one of the companies that will be selling you that healthcare."

 

Five minutes research into Tories and the NHS and its blindingly obvious they are carving it up and setting up the rest of it to fail.

 

From 2010:

 

"The Observer can reveal that leading Tory MPs who include Cameron's close ally Michael Gove are listed alongside controversial MEP Daniel Hannan as co-authors of a book, Direct Democracy, which says the NHS "fails to meet public expectations" and is "no longer relevant in the 21st century".

 

Others listed as co-authors in the book, published shortly after the 2005 general election, include shadow cabinet members Greg Clark and Jeremy Hunt and frontbencher Robert Goodwill. Clark and Hunt were unavailable for comment last night."

 

Notice the name in the last line, Jeremy Hunt....now why does that name sound familiar in this situation...

[rmanx]

To quote Frankie Boyle:

 

"trying to get him to understand the life of an overworked student nurse is like trying to get an Amazonian tree frog to understand the plot of Blade Runner. Hunt doesnt understand the need to pay doctors hes part of a ruling class that doesnt understand that the desire to cut someone open and rearrange their internal organs can come from a desire to help others, and not just because of insanity caused by hereditary syphilis."

[woolley]

So they don't pay doctors?

 

One of your quotes is from 6 years ago (in the Observer of all things) yet here they are still pouring long billions in additional funds into the NHS.

[rmanx]

So they don't pay doctors?

 

One of your quotes is from 6 years ago (in the Observer of all things) yet here they are still pouring long billions in additional funds into the NHS.

To make something burn quicker do you keep adding petrol?

 

How quickly do you think it would take to drive the NHS to the brink?

 

Do you think Junior Doctors are pair too much, enough or not enough? I'd rather too much than not enough.

[rmanx]

One of your quotes is from 6 years ago

How about this from 1.5 years ago:

 

"Unites research includes politicians it says have received donations from organisations linked to private healthcare companies. It also includes others it says have a financial stake in companies that have won contracts since the 2012 Health and Social Care Act.

 

McCluskey said around £12bn of former NHS services are now being run by the private sector.

 

Key clinical services including cancer care, blood analysis and mental health have been sold off or are up for sale, said McCluskey. It is time to scrap the Health and Social Care Act and save our NHS.

 

Among those highlighted in the Unite research is former health secretary Andrew Lansley, the chief architect of the 2012 act. Lansley received a donation of £21,000 from Caroline Nash, the wife of John Nash, in 2009. At the time John Nash was chairman of Care UK, one of the UKs largest health companies, which, according to Unite, has won more than £650m in NHS contracts in the past two years.

"

[rmanx]

"Unites research also highlights the case of Lord Popat, who until 2013 owned the TLC group, which provides care home services. Unite said the group was now run by Popats wife and has won contracts worth £4.43m since the HSCA was passed in 2012."

[woolley]

Well private provision within the health service is a good thing so long as it is more efficient and it remains free at the point of delivery. I have often said on here that the whole thing should not be run as a huge nationalised industry like British Leyland. This process was started under the Labour government (as was the horrendous private finance initiative concept). NHS should actually be a commissioning organisation to buy in the best services for patients. This is not "shutting the NHS".

[rmanx]

Andrew Lansley takes post advising drugs firm involved in dispute with NHS (The Guardian: 17 November 2015)

 

Andrew Lansley, the former health secretary, has taken on three more private sector jobs, including advising a pharmaceuticals firm at the centre of a row over the price it charges the NHS for cancer drugs.

 

Despite David Camerons promise in 2010 to end the revolving door between Whitehall and the private sector, the recently ennobled Tory peer has declared work as an adviser to Roche, the Swiss drugs company, and as an adviser to private equity firm Blackstone on investments in the health sector.

 

Roche has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of the cancer drugs fund that Lansley set up in 2010 to pay for life-extending medicines that were considered too expensive by the NHS.

 

[rmanx]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/sep/09/jeremy-hunt-virgin-hospital-deal

 

"Jeremy Hunt, the new health secretary, personally intervened to encourage the controversial takeover of NHS hospitals in his constituency by a private company, Virgin Care, raising fresh concerns last night over his appointment."

[woolley]

I am OK with whatever they do if it:

 

Remains free at point of provision. (which is the vitally important feature of the NHS)

Reduces bureaucracy. (which is horrendous)

Improves standards. (that is the important one)

Increases efficiency. (and I don't mind people making a profit out of doing that).

 

I am not sentimental about everyone at the coalface being a government employee. That was never a good idea in any industry because there is nothing to benchmark performance against and you risk being held to ransom - like now.

[rmanx]

You'll miss it when its gone...

[Lxxx]

 

So why do they pour more and more additional money into it every year? The facts don't bear out any notion that the government is trying to "shut down" the NHS. It's a sacred cow. It's politically impossible to shut it down.

"Look no matter how much money we pour into it, it just wont work. Therefore we have to shut the NHS. We just happen to have a plan for how you can pay for your healthcare, but please ignore the fact I sit on the board of one of the companies that will be selling you that healthcare."

 

Five minutes research into Tories and the NHS and its blindingly obvious they are carving it up and setting up the rest of it to fail.

 

From 2010:

 

"The Observer can reveal that leading Tory MPs who include Cameron's close ally Michael Gove are listed alongside controversial MEP Daniel Hannan as co-authors of a book, Direct Democracy, which says the NHS "fails to meet public expectations" and is "no longer relevant in the 21st century".

 

Others listed as co-authors in the book, published shortly after the 2005 general election, include shadow cabinet members Greg Clark and Jeremy Hunt and frontbencher Robert Goodwill. Clark and Hunt were unavailable for comment last night."

 

Notice the name in the last line, Jeremy Hunt....now why does that name sound familiar in this situation...

 

 

The quotes from the book above, are any of them inaccurate?