Junior doctors' strike: All-out stoppage 'a bleak day'

[ballaughbiker]

 

 

What are you on about, comparing pilots and doctors, any rich idiot can be a pilot.

I hoped that, whilst it obviously is a clumsy and far from perfect comparison, it might just be one way of deciding how badly off junior doctors really are. Working that out by any comparison isn't a shambles.

 

I have been listening to their arguments for weeks now and the vocal ones are really playing on emotional stuff like how can they buy a house/bring up a family on that money and those hours etc etc. I am the first to agree you need considerably more intellect to do medicine but I think you are being a bit hard on pilots (are you talking from experience?) So yeah, it takes years to achieve consultant status with long hours and relatively crap money but they aren't the only ones in that situation hence the clumsy comparison.

 

FFs no newly qualified doctor has to pay (rather than receive money for working like the rest of us) for that first job do they? A few young pilots have to remortgage their parents house to get to an employable stage then pay some bandit airline to give them a job. Considering that, junior docs don't have it that bad.

[ballaughbiker]

 

 

And of course its a conspiracy to shut the NHS

No government of any colour can keep the NHS going in its present form for much longer. I spent 13 years working for it and its a fantastic institution that we would all really miss but it is increasingly a victim of its own success.

 

I often wonder how Corby would feel about private medicine if he every got into power.

[pongo]

A few young pilots have to remortgage their parents house to get to an employable stage then pay some bandit airline to give them a job. Considering that, junior docs don't have it that bad.

The ones I knew were either ex military or else they worked really hard, living cheaply and saving all they could before going to school in the US and then starting out flying commercial routes in Asia etc. And saving up some more to make the switch to flying passengers.

 

It's a big deal but anyone can do it if they want to.

[woolley]

You'll miss it when its gone...

I certainly would. Even if I don't use it so much I know it is very valuable, but nothing I've seen up to now convinces me that anybody is trying to close the NHS. Get better value for taxpayers' money - yes I've seen them try to do that. Make it a 24/7/365 service - yes I am seeing them try to do that. There are lots of other things that could be done, but to try to construe billions of pounds extra going in every year as a negative as you have done above is really crass and desperately searching for an argument, I'm afraid. I think you are falling for the left wing agenda and the union rhetoric, frankly.

 

If they ever say it is going and everyone has to have private health insurance and get their credit card out at A & E however, I promise I will be down on the barricades with you. The very idea is politically toxic.

[Bernie Sanders]

There clearly is no similar vocation that involves nearly half a working lifetime of training (and of course consultants will say they are still learning).

 

There are plenty of "vocations" (is that an upmarket word for a JOB now?).

 

There are loads of other jobs that involve lifelong development, training and learning. Stop pandering to these self-important brats. They are not more vital than any other line of work. Soldiers do far more and risk their lives and yet they get paid peanuts compared to these whingers. Get back to work, or get on yer bikes!

[manxman1980]

I was speaking to a Junior Doctor yesterday and as far as they were concerned the strike is not about salary or pay but about working hours and the effect that has on safety and welfare.

 

This Junior Doctor said it was very rare that they could leave on time at the end of their shift as they could not walk out midway through treating a patient.

 

They also said that they would have to accept the new contract because if they resigned they would not have completed their training and would not be able to get a job elsewhere.

 

I accept that a sample size of one is not very representative but it opened my eyes about what Junior Doctors are actually striking about.

 

I still believe the NHS needs to change in order to provide a service for our modern lifestyles.

 

I think the real issue here is that the Government can't back down on junior Doctors as it will be going after the Consultants and Senior Medical staff next.

[ballaughbiker]

 

 

If they ever say it is going and everyone has to have private health insurance and get their credit card out at A & E however, I promise I will be down on the barricades with you. The very idea is politically toxic.

The idea is toxic and no gov wants to be the one who everyone blames for its introduction but I think a small percentage payment would help sort a lot of issues that the NHS has.

 

If I go to a hospital/gp/pharmacist/dentist where I am atm, the 'NHS' pays for 75% unless it is something long term like diabetes where they pay 100%. You can either pay the 25% or have government protected insurance to cover it where the premiums and the terms are controlled by law. For instance, they can't load premiums of those with pre-existing conditions.

 

Nobody goes without and many of the fears we who "don't pay" have of such a system really are groundless. It is nothing like the devisive USA heath system yet this is the one always referred to by those ideologically resisting partial payment.

 

We had a bad car accident two years ago requiring quite a bit of treatment and the bill was <£100.I think we need to get our heads around the fact that it has to be paid for somehow even if that's not when you use it.

[ballaughbiker]

 

 

There are plenty of "vocations" (is that an upmarket word for a JOB now?).

No Bernie it was not used an upmarket word for a job in this instance. It partially related to lifelong training but the difference imo is that the skills and experience attained are not readily transferable to any other vocation or job.

[llap]

After careful consideration of the evidence, I take back what I said. They **should** be on strike, and **shame** on the government for forcing their hand with what is obviously a deliberate privatisation or corporatisation (worse) agenda. Did that begin under (now multimillionaire) Bliar's watch?

[rmanx]

There are loads of other jobs that involve lifelong development, training and learning. Stop pandering to these self-important brats. They are not more vital than any other line of work. Soldiers do far more and risk their lives and yet they get paid peanuts compared to these whingers. Get back to work, or get on yer bikes!

Actually the percentage of the Armed Forces trained strength that actually see any real danger is a lot smaller than you think.

 

Unless there have been any big naval battles or our airfields have been invaded, 90% of the Navy and RAF never see "combat".

 

Trained operational strength of the BAF is around 180,000 personnel, with around 4,000 actually deployed on overseas "combat" operations.

 

If I had to choose, I would choose doctors everyday of the week.

[Lxxx]

It's an unfortunate fact that most degenerative diseases and a fair proportion of ailments are due to living an unhealthy lifestyle and this, coupled with the fact that the pharmaceutical industry is so powerful, is what drives this over-reliance on reactive healthcare and medicine-based treatment.

The NHS is a monolith of an organisation which was set up with the best intentions but has grown into a bureaucratic gravy train for a lot of people which sucks the lifeblood out of it and now exists to line the pockets it's army of managers and it's legions of suppliers.

I don't know what the right option is moving forwards but my best guess would to make it's main purpose to be a procurement organisation to purchase the best possible care for it's patients from the best suited supplier. Only then will be get any real accountability and a driving up of standards.

[woolley]

It's an unfortunate fact that most degenerative diseases and a fair proportion of ailments are due to living an unhealthy lifestyle and this, coupled with the fact that the pharmaceutical industry is so powerful, is what drives this over-reliance on reactive healthcare and medicine-based treatment.

The NHS is a monolith of an organisation which was set up with the best intentions but has grown into a bureaucratic gravy train for a lot of people which sucks the lifeblood out of it and now exists to line the pockets it's army of managers and it's legions of suppliers.

I don't know what the right option is moving forwards but my best guess would to make it's main purpose to be a procurement organisation to purchase the best possible care for it's patients from the best suited supplier. Only then will be get any real accountability and a driving up of standards.

The model I was advocating earlier.

[P.K.]

Those NHS bastards are making people live longer. So they need more healthcare. So it costs more year on year.

 

How are they going to stay in power by giving already well-off tory voters tax breaks with this drain on the Treasury?

 

Something has to give...

[Lxxx]

Those NHS bastards are making people live longer. So they need more healthcare. So it costs more year on year.

 

How are they going to stay in power by giving already well-off tory voters tax breaks with this drain on the Treasury?

 

Something has to give...

 

There's no health in healthcare. It's sicknesscare. There's not a lot of money in healthy people, nor dead people, but a shitload inbetween.

[rmanx]

There's not a lot of money in healthy people

Kidding right? How many new gyms have opened on the IOM alone recently?

 

And have you heard about that (not so) latest healthy food craze? Spiral foods...you too can buy a £40 spirilizer(?) that you will use once and then give up.