Max Power Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 The comments which got him suspended from the Labour Party. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/listen-the-anti-semitic-comments-that-got-ken-livingstone-suspen/ I read into this that we are being told that we must support the killing of innocent Palestinians and we must never ever speak the truth when talking about the history of Nazi Germany? It is a fact that Hitler supported the deportation of Jews to Palestine in 1932. Criticising the Israeli government is not being anti Semitic. This is what happens when a religion and a government become one and the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 What killing of innocent Palestinians? If you think that killing innocent people is Israeli Government policy then you're way off in conspiracy land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I see nothing wrong with that sound clip. He does seem to have a point though that double standards are used when "Israel" is involved. We need to ask ourselves why do people that criticize Israel seem to get such a pummeling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 What killing of innocent Palestinians? If you think that killing innocent people is Israeli Government policy then you're way off in conspiracy land. What do you mean, are you saying that every Palestinian killed is a suicide bomber? I never said it was policy, but they are indiscriminate in their bombing and the way that they have claimed and occupied land from the West Bank and Gaza strip. There are more casualties amongst Palestinians than Israelis. I am not a supporter of Palestinian terrorism but you have to be able to see how the ordinary people are being made to suffer by over zealous retaliation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 the french resistance were classed as terrorists. much like the palestinians. both countries were under occupation. is there a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 What the issue is really, why say what he said about Hitler, at that time in that context. Also the "before he went mad and started killing 6 million Jews" bit, which is an incredibly flippant phrase, and factually incorrect in that Hitler didn't suddenly become an anti-Semite in the early thirties. Why not apologise immediately if it was an ill-thought out badly phrased remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 The News Quiz on Radio 4 covered Ken's little intervention pretty well. Iplayer will be your friend if you wish to hear it! When discussing anti-semitism the idea that brining up Hitler is going to advance the debate is nuts. So what if Hitler supported the removal of Jews from Germany to the Middle East in the 1930s. What has this got to do with the problems of anti-semitism in modern Britain and how to deal with policy disagreements over Israel. Going ... "Well Hitler thought ..." is a simply incredible way to advance this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 He wasn't exactly saying that Hitler was a good old boy. it may have been a poor choice of words or example, but the fact is that he was quoting facts. In all of this, the scramble to appease seems to be causing the principle of free speech to be diminished. He was simply trying to put his colleagues words into context, words which she has apologised unreservedly for, but it seems that once things are said, apologies mean nothing. Despite the fact that they came on the back of the intense bombardment of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli army! I am really beginning to wonder what is going on in this country, we sacrifice freedom after freedom in return for things which are inconsequential to governments and establishment such as sexual and religious freedoms. Meanwhile our right to even think differently on politics or globalisation is being slowly taken away from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Ken Livingstone has got a nasty little streak that he keeps hidden most of the time. He also talks a lot of sense much of the time so he's popular with many and his deep convictions are usually obscured. He's usually politically savvy enough to play the game, but Corbyn's emergence has given him new confidence. This incident shows the real Ken Livingstone, make no mistake, and he's not good at backing down. He has to go, this time for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Max: What context would that be then ? Her remarks about relocating the State of Israel to the United States ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Max: What context would that be then ? Her remarks about relocating the State of Israel to the United States ? I meant in the context that her words were a reaction to what was going on at the time in Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 That's the sort of first cause reductionism that the Nazis used Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 I don't think the two compare at all? She apologised, it seemed sincere. The Nazi's apologised for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Sanders Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 What killing of innocent Palestinians? If you think that killing innocent people is Israeli Government policy then you're way off in conspiracy land. What do you mean, are you saying that every Palestinian killed is a suicide bomber? I never said it was policy, but they are indiscriminate in their bombing and the way that they have claimed and occupied land from the West Bank and Gaza strip. There are more casualties amongst Palestinians than Israelis. I am not a supporter of Palestinian terrorism but you have to be able to see how the ordinary people are being made to suffer by over zealous retaliation? Clearly in your OP you referred to the evil Israelis killing "innocent Palestinians". You obviously think they're all innocent and none of them are suicide bombers or murderers or rapists, etc, even though the reality is that the ones being killed are being killed because they are attacking Israeli civilians or soldiers. If a few innocent people get killed, it's regrettable, but I doubt you'll find any other country that exerts so much effort in avoiding civilian casualties in that part of the world. By whitewashing all these terrorists as "innocent Palestinians", you obviously are a supporter of Palestinian terrorism and your allegation that the Israelis indiscriminately bomb is without any basis or merit. You are making stuff up or getting your "facts" from people who make stuff up. Of course there are more casualties among the Palestinians. What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't prove they are right or wrong. You have the Israelis who are very good at defending themselves and don't want to die versus terrorists who want to die but not before taking as many Israelis with them. Obviously in that situation you're going to get more Palestinian terrorists die than Israelis die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Well said Bernie Sorry that Bill's missus has got the better of you this time but you put up a good fight and said a lot that needed to be said. Appreciate you taking the time to visit us from three thousand miles away. Isn't modern technology fantastic. Is it nearly Christmas over there now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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