The Lisvane Review

[Donald Trumps]

You couldn't stop them standing for an all-island election

 

But the current insidious method is truly demoralizing to the democratic onlooker

[Ham_N_Eggs]

It doesn't really matter what comes of this review none of the recommendations will ever be adopted if it means changing legco. Besides it's the government (not the parliament) who are arranging the review and they have a habit of appointing the consultant they want to achieve a specific outcome i.e. they appointed a guy responsible for corporatising post offices to review if the post office needs corporatising. There was only ever going to be one result...This latest review is just an excuse to kick reform further down the road.

[Ham_N_Eggs]

I hope so, too. I feel I want to contribute, but it's such a big subject I don't know where to begin....!! One of the problems is that, although I think I know what Tynwald is and what Tynwald does, I don't know for certain - my knowledge may be wrong or incomplete, and I don't know what I don't know.....!

 

Perhaps it would be helpful for someone to produce an Idiots' Guide to Tynwald, and for Lord Lisvane to give some guidance to Joe Public as what areas he will be looking at? The Government is quick to put out consultation papers when it wants public support for actions it wants to take, so perhaps it should consult properly over this, as well?

Go on a tour of Tynwald it's free and actually quite informative. I went on the heritage open days one and spied they're weekly http://www.tynwald.org.im/visitor/tour/Pages/default.aspx

[Kopek]

Lisvane, Robert Rogers has 40 years experience in the Commons. He has held many roles, requiring integrity and intelligence, which would actually be very useful in the running of our Island.

 

Do you really think he would allow his self to be swayed by the desires of ''Tynpotwald, BASTARDS, gravy trainers, useless twats, ego maniacs, clowns and general dunderheads?

 

Don't let your silly preconceptions make you look stupid.

[one hung low]

Do you think the recent visitors from Scottish Parliament and Jersey were taken in by our lot?

Edited May 2, 2016 by one hung low

[Kopek]

No. The relevance being?

[thesultanofsheight]

It doesn't really matter what comes of this review none of the recommendations will ever be adopted if it means changing legco. Besides it's the government (not the parliament) who are arranging the review and they have a habit of appointing the consultant they want to achieve a specific outcome i.e. they appointed a guy responsible for corporatising post offices to review if the post office needs corporatising. There was only ever going to be one result...This latest review is just an excuse to kick reform further down the road.

Sadly I suspect you're right.

[Donald Trumps]

I don't think people will accept that in the present climate

[thesultanofsheight]

Without wanting to be critical DT but what will happen if people don't accept it? Expressions of general angriness on the Internet? People muttering about it in the pub? I'm sorry but people will put up with everything, as they have done in the last 15 years, because nobody will do anything about it. I doubt Lord Lisvane or IOMG will be put off by Internet moaners protesting on here, or Facebook Groups demanding change. Unless people are prepared to take direct action they will do whatever they like.

[one hung low]

No. The relevance being?

The relevance being is that these people (see last week's Courier) left the Island singing the praises of our Parliament and how it is run. Without a thought of how it serves or otherwise the people of the land.. They get shown around and told the history (which I agree is marvellous) and they get taken in. They could probably speak with the likes of Geoff Corkish MLC for hours and be entertained and taken in by his charisma without sussing that he hasn't an inkling about politics other than what he has been fed, not an original thought or idea in his head. Same goes with most of them. I would imagine in the cabinet office they make sure no VIPs speak to Quayle, Malarkey, Vregeen, Quirk or Houghton for too long. The silver tongued bullshitters will be to the fore.

 

The boy Lisvane will be here for a while though. I hope he gets a chance to see what the place is really like. If he does, he'll be that perplexed those eyebrows will be crossed.

[woolley]

 

 

Lord Lisvane has been asked to:...................

Whose idea was this originally? I'd really love to know.

[Donald Trumps]

Chris Thomas?

 

I dunno

[Donald Trumps]

Without wanting to be critical DT but what will happen if people don't accept it? Expressions of general angriness on the Internet? People muttering about it in the pub? I'm sorry but people will put up with everything, as they have done in the last 15 years, because nobody will do anything about it. I doubt Lord Lisvane or IOMG will be put off by Internet moaners protesting on here, or Facebook Groups demanding change. Unless people are prepared to take direct action they will do whatever they like.

 

Could it be referred to the new governator?

 

If them Manx parliamentarians won't be told how to properly govern themselves in the 21st century by a key figure of the English parliamentary establishment then surely the Crown - being responsible for ensuring 'good government' - will have to step in? If not, they we can get rid of them an all

Edited May 2, 2016 by Donald Trumps

[Keith]

On another point,I would very much like to see an immediate end put to sitting MHK's being elevated to LegCo.

 

Continuing with this practice represents the biggest snub to the democratic process imaginable.

 

 

I've been saying this for ages.

Firstly, it would stop compliant MHK's being elevated for a cosy retirement.

Secondly, it could reduce the motivation for some MHK's to be compliant in the first place.

 

If a sitting MHK had to resign their seat before being allowed to be nominated, taking the risk that they could end up with nothing, do you think any of the recently elevated lot would have done so? Possibly David Cretney would, and would have been confident enough of support from the Keys, but the rest of them?

[thesultanofsheight]

 

Without wanting to be critical DT but what will happen if people don't accept it? Expressions of general angriness on the Internet? People muttering about it in the pub? I'm sorry but people will put up with everything, as they have done in the last 15 years, because nobody will do anything about it. I doubt Lord Lisvane or IOMG will be put off by Internet moaners protesting on here, or Facebook Groups demanding change. Unless people are prepared to take direct action they will do whatever they like.

 

Could it be referred to the new governator?

 

If them Manx parliamentarians won't be told how to properly govern themselves in the 21st century by a key figure of the English parliamentary establishment then surely the Crown - being responsible for ensuring 'good government' - will have to step in? If not, they we can get rid of them an all

Possibly, but how would that happen? People would first have to do something to ensure that outcome happened and it's unlikely that this would happen. Also bear in mind that Establishments' work in tandem with each other. The U.K establishment doesn't want instability here so it will provide the best outcome which serves its interests. You only have to put an agreement in front of Bell and he feels compelled to sign it. Therefore the U.K won't run the risk of creating a sense of Manx optimism or handing over any more control to nationalists; as there's a risk that with the next tax agreement that comes down the pipe they might be told to piss off. They like it how it is.

 

The political inertia we have here actively suits them. They give us VAT money, in return we sign any agreement going to make them look good internationally, and if IOMG keep on managing the public sector debts as bad as they do currently then the UK will be bailing us out in a few years and they'll get even more control. It is not in the UKs interest to change the truly appalling system we have here. They have a very compliant crown dependency doing largely what they want us to do without it costing them too much money.