Declan Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Yes there is a lot wrong with the EU and there is waste, but it really is good value for what it set out to do, which was to integrate the economies of Europe so that we were all so interdependent that never again would Europe go to war, or be able to go to war, as had happened every 25 to 30 years for the previous 150 years. On that it has succeeded, beyond anyone's wildest dreams. This is something that nobody's really talking about. People are so used to peace that they think it will never go back to anything else. It's worse than that, there are people who don't have any historical perspective. I got into a facebook discussion with someone who believed now was the most dangerous time in history. What about the two World Wars I asked, but apparently they were only in Europe and I should take a global view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I know I've moved off topic from the death of the MP, but it is the same with the (mis)reporting of facts ... I think I can be certain that non of it is helped by whipping up fear and blame and doing nothing to educate and resolve. It would certainly be good to see the mainstream Leave campaign much more clearly distance itself from Farage UKIP. If they don't then they are part of the same game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I know I've moved off topic from the death of the MP, but it is the same with the (mis)reporting of facts ... I think I can be certain that non of it is helped by whipping up fear and blame and doing nothing to educate and resolve. It would certainly be good to see the mainstream Leave campaign much more clearly distance itself from Farage UKIP. If they don't then they are part of the same game. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/16/new-pro-brexit-ad-gets-linked-to-nazi-era-propaganda/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 But isn't that how established politicians, of whatever hue, try and deal with demagogues. They think they can use the demagogue to defeat the other side and then that they are going to be in control as they will be able to control the demagogue, and then they find they have unleashed a monster they cannot control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Yes there is a lot wrong with the EU and there is waste, but it really is good value for what it set out to do, which was to integrate the economies of Europe so that we were all so interdependent that never again would Europe go to war, or be able to go to war, as had happened every 25 to 30 years for the previous 150 years. On that it has succeeded, beyond anyone's wildest dreams. This is something that nobody's really talking about. People are so used to peace that they think it will never go back to anything else. It's worse than that, there are people who don't have any historical perspective. I got into a facebook discussion with someone who believed now was the most dangerous time in history. What about the two World Wars I asked, but apparently they were only in Europe and I should take a global view. World War not being a large enough clue there I think we are on the precipice of repeating history and heading towards 1930's Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Can you imagine the UK run by Bojo & The Gover, with a significant say for him above? That's Forage, not Rhumsaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Can you imagine the UK run by Bojo & The Gover, with a significant say for him above? Actually no. They won't be able to keep Farage on board for long. If Leave win they will end up arguing with each other over the nature of a future trade agreement with the EU. Boris and most of the Conservative Party do not want to give up on the single market. If they do the City will move out. Therefore they have to try to negotiate compromises which Farage will not accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Yes there is a lot wrong with the EU and there is waste, but it really is good value for what it set out to do, which was to integrate the economies of Europe so that we were all so interdependent that never again would Europe go to war, or be able to go to war, as had happened every 25 to 30 years for the previous 150 years. On that it has succeeded, beyond anyone's wildest dreams. This is something that nobody's really talking about. People are so used to peace that they think it will never go back to anything else. It's worse than that, there are people who don't have any historical perspective. Totally agree. But most of them are on the left and believe that if only we love everyone all will be well. The EU has NOT kept the relative peace in Europe. Nuclear weapons have done that. Does anyone believe that Russia would have annexed Crimea if Ukraine had not negotiated away its nuclear status by joining the nuclear non-proliferation treaty in 1994? A treaty guaranteed incidentally by the USA, Britain and (seriously) Russia, to respect the security of Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The trouble is Woolley is like a linesman, even a right winger is to the left of him. Cheers Declan. Depends which side of the pitch he's on of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The trouble is Woolley is like a linesman, even a right winger is to the left of him. Cheers Declan. Depends which side of the pitch he's on of course. or which way you're facing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Can you imagine the UK run by Bojo & The Gover, with a significant say for him above? That's Forage, not Rhumsaa Don't underestimate me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Totally agree. But most of them are on the left and believe that if only we love everyone all will be well. If everyone dealt with other people with love and respect, most things would be well, and we'd better placed to fix the other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Totally agree. But most of them are on the left and believe that if only we love everyone all will be well. If everyone dealt with other people with love and respect, most things would be well, and we'd better placed to fix the other things. you're only saying that in case you get nuked you damn hippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The EU has NOT kept the relative peace in Europe. Nuclear weapons have done that. Does anyone believe that Russia would have annexed Crimea if Ukraine had not negotiated away its nuclear status by joining the nuclear non-proliferation treaty in 1994? A treaty guaranteed incidentally by the USA, Britain and (seriously) Russia, to respect the security of Ukraine. Do you believe they would have annexed it had Ukraine been a member of the EU? The carrot of EU membership has encouraged democracy throughout Europe, and a decline in military dictatorships. Breaking it up could lead to instability. They set goals for countries with poor human rights records to meet before they can join. It's better for the people of Europe to have it, not just on an economic level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Totally agree. But most of them are on the left and believe that if only we love everyone all will be well. If everyone dealt with other people with love and respect, most things would be well, and we'd better placed to fix the other things. you're only saying that in case you get nuked you damn hippy Heavy! I'm being hassled by Commissioner Doomsaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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