Murder of an MP

[woolley]

The NHS has had billions more poured into it every single year by governments of all colours. There are no cuts. There ARE limitations because resources are finite. There is huge waste and inefficiency in the NHS but to attack that seems to be toxic to politicians.

[mojomonkey]

So if you question something it is bad taste, there is no disrespect or bad taste in that post. This morning the press is claiming that when asked his name in court he said "death to traitors and freedom to Britain". which campaign does this muddy?

 

The press is "claiming", do you dispute that is what he the actually said? The guy is clearly a mentally disabled psychopath, I suspect he will go for an insanity defence once he gets a legal team.

 

I don't think he actually muddies either campaign for sensible, reasonable people. If someone cannot see that this attack and the decision to leave or remain in the EU are massively different things then that person is clearly a bit dim. Having said that it doesn't help that a huge proportion of people able to vote in this referendum are exactly that. I've said it before but this too important a decision to have it decided by people who have no means of actually understanding the impact.

[woolley]

 

 

 

 

Totally agree. But most of them are on the left and believe that if only we love everyone all will be well.

 

 

 

If everyone dealt with other people with love and respect, most things would be well, and we'd better placed to fix the other things.

Thanks again, Declan. You're being a great help today. Of course your statement is totally true, but your IF is just about the biggest one there is. It illustrates perfectly the naivety of the liberal stance. Unfortunately that isn't the way the world is in reality as has been tragically proven in this case. And what's more, it never ever will be. It's a pipe dream. One that people sincerely yearn for, but a pipe dream nonetheless.

So we're condemned to a never ending cycle of violence? One conflict giving rise to the seeds of the next, and all we can do is be the biggest psycho on the block?

 

If anything this event has proven the exact opposite of what you say. The Liberal values of Jo Cox are the ones being lauded around the world not those of her attacker. We can't magic away the men of violence but copying their tactics only increses the amount of violence in the world.

 

Creating a peaceful, fair world, is a massive task it began long before we were born and will continue long after we're gone. There'll be setbacks along the way, but if we all try to live peaceful, tolerant lives humanity will get there, and in the meantime we'll have better lives.

 

"And they all lived happily ever after."

[Declan]

No but more people living happily for longer, isn't a bad a achievement.

 

There'll always be problems that need overcoming, and sometimes we'll fail. But, working together in a spirit of friendship and cooperation is the best way of tackling issues.

[gerrydandridge]

 

The press is "claiming", do you dispute that is what he the actually said? The guy is clearly a mentally disabled psychopath, I suspect he will go for an insanity defence once he gets a legal team.

 

I don't think he actually muddies either campaign for sensible, reasonable people. If someone cannot see that this attack and the decision to leave or remain in the EU are massively different things then that person is clearly a bit dim. Having said that it doesn't help that a huge proportion of people able to vote in this referendum are exactly that. I've said it before but this too important a decision to have it decided by people who have no means of actually understanding the impact.

 

 

 

I am sure you all know by now that I do not trust the media, I don't want to seem "conspiratorial" in this topic, I only say that a good detective will start his/her investigation asking "who benefits from the crime", this is not disrespectful, however a good technique to deter people asking such questions is to play the disrespect card as Bobby did. And yes the character seems to have been hand picked for the standard template nutter that you all will be expecting.

 

As for not muddying the out campaign take a look at the Guardians efforts soon after it happened, Take your pick of political opportunism in this article, entitled "The mood is ugly, and an MP is dead", by the press i so despise for this very reason.

 

"Rude, crude, Nazi-style extremism is mercifully rare. But the leavers have lifted several stones. How recklessly the decades of careful work and anti-racist laws to make those sentiments unacceptable have been overturned."

 

"This attack on a public official cannot be viewed in isolation. It occurs against a backdrop of an ugly public mood in which we have been told to despise the political class, to distrust those who serve, to dehumanise those with whom we do not readily identify."

 

"At a ward meeting this week my local Labour councillor in Camden, north London, showed us a sign that had been left on a member’s car windscreen. The car had a remain poster on it and was parked round the corner from where I live. This is what the message said, printed in capitals (I’ve left the original spelling): “This is a lave [leave] area. We hate the foriner. Nex time do not park your car with remain sign on. Hi Hitler. White Power” – accompanied by racist symbols. The car’s owner had passed it on to the police."

 

on and on she goes, this is not muddying the out campaign is it?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/mood-ugly-mp-dead-jo-cox

[ScotsAlan]

Re the UKIP poster. A friend sent me the comparison below.

 

I follow BF on facebook. Not as a "like", but just to see what comical nonsense they are spouting. I Like pages such as "Exposing Britain first, "Bin bagged by britain first", and "Spell check a racist". All on FB, when my VPN works that is.

 

There are also the " Infidel" facebook pages. "Knights Templer International" ( that one is Nick Griffen). They are trying to set up a right wing enclave in Eastern Europe.

 

These people are evil. And they prey on the weak and the mentally unsound to rally to their cause. Their cause is white supremacy.

 

Those groups are far right. Nutters.

 

Now look at UKIPS poster again..Guess what political party published the bottom image?

 

[Bobbie Bobster]

I don't want to seem "conspiratorial" in this topic

gerry, that's the second time you've mentioned this.

 

Do you not see that you are failing miserably? Media distrust, deterring questions, oblique NAME references, convenient timing, these are all touchstone phrases of conspiracy theories.

[gerrydandridge]

It is not "conspiracy" to ask questions, I am now very mindful of this whilst posting here as I know you all instantly jump on it, to simply question any official story is considered conspiracy, and if a death is involved it is considered disrespectful, the left are using this indecent for political gain, they are psychologically connecting this death with the Brexit campaign, the media are throwing out lies as with the witness reports of "Britain first", this is not true, but they do not care, this is disgraceful behavior and hardly anyone is picking up on it.

 

The exit campaign has made a surge in recent weeks and then along comes this, its not conspiracy or disrespect it is just vigilance.

 

Here is another "Christine Lagarde refuses to comment on Brexit ‘out of respect' for Jo Cox as she calls for 'reflection' on EU debate".......http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/christine-lagarde-refuses-to-comment-on-brexit-out-of-respect-fo/, .....what psychological message is this sending the "voters" Bobby?

 

Are you lot really this fecking blind....

[ScotsAlan]

The NHS has had billions more poured into it every single year by governments of all colours. There are no cuts. There ARE limitations because resources are finite. There is huge waste and inefficiency in the NHS but to attack that seems to be toxic to politicians.

To attack that would be toxic to the Pharma companies that donate to political parties and give ex politicians consultancy jobs.

 

On a personal level, I would prefer that there is waste. If I am on a gurney in casualty, about to breath my last, I don't want the last words I hear to be "No budget left Doctor".

 

Jo Cox was airlifted to hospital. Not because of who she was, but because helicopters are becoming the ambulance of this age. Many of them are charity funded, with funds provided by people grateful to be alive. But it is ultimately up to Government to cover the shortfall if charity funds don't cover the cost.

 

Is that a waste? I suppose you want have to ask people who have been saved by air ambulance crews. From an over ambitious biker in Wales, to a heart attack victim in Essex.

 

As the population grows, the health budget should grow.

 

Asylum seekers should not be seen as a burden on infrastructure. They should be seen as an investment. They are the people who will be working and paying when you have your stroke at 95 years old. They are the people who will be paying the tax for your pension. After all, your own kids might be working in a tax haven (not personally directed), at your instruction to avoid tax on their inheritance. They deserve it after all.

 

But of course, asylum seekers are not allowed to work. They can get pitiful payments that are not enough to live on.

 

And consider this. They come from poor countries, wrecked countries. Where a simple ulcer or abscess can't be treated. They arrive here in a bad way. Their bodies need help.

 

But an Afghan or Syrian Doctor, arriving on these shores is not allowed to work. He can't help anyone in his home country, because he has no medicine, no instruments, not even a hospital ( the Americans bombed it).

 

If you really want to save money in the NHS, let's these doctors in. The doctors who can do miracles with nothing. And let their patients in. And let's them work with the NHS to train more doctors and medics to treat more people. Let's train the refugees you dislike so much to be part of the solution.

 

We don't need soldiers. We need medics.

 

If the UK had hospital ships rather than gunships, if we had armies of medics armed with basic surgical skills, rather than soldiers with surgical killing and wounding skills, we would be in a better position to secure our borders.

 

We should export what is best in our society rather than export our fears and bigotry in the warhead of a million pound missile.

 

So, you see, the cure to NHS waste, is actually the opposite of what your gut instinct suggests.

 

By the way, I support the decision by MSF to not accept EU funds.

 

Open the doors. People can go out as well as in you know. Give people the skills they need to use the door both ways :-)

 

Edited cos long post.

[ScotsAlan]

What do you reckon....

 

[woolley]

What do you reckon....

 

 

I reckon you've lost the plot. I was on about bureaucracy, inefficiency and fat cat wages for management. But I hope you enjoyed the rant about your fantasy world.

[slinkydevil]

"Britain first", this is not true, but they do not care, this is disgraceful behavior and hardly anyone is picking up on it.

 

How do you know it's not true? Because someone put a post-it note in a window? I like your evidence.

[TheTeapot]

Gerry doesn't need evidence, he knows.

[Chinahand]

The thing about Gerry is that he assumes that if people are using an event for their political advantage they've also caused the event.

 

I'm not surprised that those in remain are using this event to make their political points, but to presume they therefore deliberately murdered Jo Cox so they could make those points simply doesn't follow, isn't reasonable and shows Gerry's paranoia.

 

You can then add his numerology and belief in the controlling other and for him it all makes twisted sense.

 

Goodness - what a way to rationalise the murder of an MP.

[Mr. Sausages]

 

Goodness - what a way to rationalise the murder of an MP.

What a way to think.