Douglas South

[Dougie]

I listened to Fowler's interview last night.

 

I'm looking for someone for my second vote. I wasn't overly inspired by what i heard.

 

Which I think leaves Keith Fitton and Bill Malarkey? Is there anyone else standing in Douglas South?

 

Malarkey is an abolsute NO.

 

So it's a struggle at the moment.

 

Have a chat with Fitton if you get the chance. I think you will vote for him if you do

[notwell]

Well if he comes round my way I will!

[quilp]

Had Billy at my bungalow t'other day. Neither of them have much up top...

[KeithFitton]

Well if he comes round my way I will!

 

Because of my late decision to stand, it isn't going to be possible to get out to many people by knocking on doors. I'm actually still working next week, then only taking a couple of weeks off before the election.

 

However, if anyone who lives in Douglas South would like to contact me, I'll be happy to arrange to visit you at a convenient time. I've had a couple of people text me to arrange a visit so if you'd like to wait a few days, so as to protect your Manx Forums identity, then email me keith.fitton@manx.net, phone/text 235043 or contact via Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DouglasSouth2016/

[j2bad]

 

Well if he comes round my way I will!

Because of my late decision to stand, it isn't going to be possible to get out to many people by knocking on doors. I'm actually still working next week, then only taking a couple of weeks off before the election.

 

However, if anyone who lives in Douglas South would like to contact me, I'll be happy to arrange to visit you at a convenient time. I've had a couple of people text me to arrange a visit so if you'd like to wait a few days, so as to protect your Manx Forums identity, then email me keith.fitton@manx.net, phone/text 235043 or contact via Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DouglasSouth2016/

Please just put some posters up its not like sweaty bollock malarkey or Chauncey impress on the door step, Kate is sound so she will get in you sound not a complete bollock which you would have thought would do for second place, but just to be safe can you fix my washing machine / offer me a free kitchen or mow my grass?

[Rhumsaa]

 

 

 

That is a very good point to note. You are not. Lots of people standing thinking they can count on second votes to scrape in may well find out they get no votes at all. A second vote should not be an expected consolation prize. If you don't like a second candidate don't vote for them.

Precisely.

That really needs to be advertised to a much wider audience. I'm surprised Manx Radio or the Manx Telecom broadcasts haven't focused on this more. You don't want anyone getting in by default.

I wholeheartedly agree. A number of manifestos I've seen insinuate that both votes must be used. These candidates clearly think they'll pick up the number twos...if you'll forgive the mental image that creates! I am very likely to cast one vote only.

Whilst I agree, I don't believe any news organisation is going to encourage people in an age of voter apathy to not use all their votes.

[Uhtred]

 

 

 

 

That is a very good point to note. You are not. Lots of people standing thinking they can count on second votes to scrape in may well find out they get no votes at all. A second vote should not be an expected consolation prize. If you don't like a second candidate don't vote for them.

Precisely.

That really needs to be advertised to a much wider audience. I'm surprised Manx Radio or the Manx Telecom broadcasts haven't focused on this more. You don't want anyone getting in by default.

I wholeheartedly agree. A number of manifestos I've seen insinuate that both votes must be used. These candidates clearly think they'll pick up the number twos...if you'll forgive the mental image that creates! I am very likely to cast one vote only.

Whilst I agree, I don't believe any news organisation is going to encourage people in an age of voter apathy to not use all their votes.

 

 

"Encouragement" would not be appropriate, but it would be perfectly legitimate (and correct) for media outlets (which many people would look to for explanations) to simply point out that whereas each voter may cast 2 votes if they wish, they do not have to do so - should only one candidate appeal then casting one vote is entirely acceptable. To do that would just faithfully reflect the election rules - it would not involve any kind of encouragement to abandon the second vote. This is particularly relevant in that, as I mentioned in a previous post, there are candidates whose manifestos are written so as to certainly imply that two votes must be cast.

[notwell]

"whereas each voter may cast 2 votes if they wish, they do not have to do so - should only one candidate appeal then casting one vote is entirely acceptable."

 

Of course, this is true.

However, assuming a candidate gets a 1 vote then they can be elected.

 

So, whilst someone might think only one person really has their support and deserves a vote the fact of the matter is that someone else WILL be getting elected.

 

If you take my case for example - I think the runners are Beecroft, Fitton, Malarkey and Fowler for Douglas. Assuming I vote then it is hard for me to look past Beecroft for my first vote. She's not perfect, but I think she is one of the "better" MHK's in the current administration.

 

Now, if i don't vote at all with my second vote then am I potentially letting my least preferred candidate get a free ride. I don't want Malarkey in at all. So surely i must put that second vote support to one of the other two candidates. After all, one of those 3 is definitely getting elected?

[Uhtred]

Well that's simply a matter of personal preference Notty. If the prospect of one, in particular, of the other candidates being elected is so displeasing to you that you (to a degree) want to vote "against" them then that's fine; cast a vote for your second preference candidate. Or, if you really want to keep "X" out, cast vote 2 for the person that you think will have the best chance of gaining the seat and hence condemn "X" to failure, (if the "best chance" candidate isn't your second prefererence person).

 

I'm approaching matters differently - only one of the candidates in my patch appeals to me (pending receipt of further manifestos I might add). Therefore I'll vote for them and no other. Yes of course someone will take seat 2 and me withholding my second vote won't change that, but I simply don't want to have an involvement in the election of any candidate that I consider not to be up to the job.

[quilp]

"I'm sorry we didn't get the chance to chat today. If you would like to discuss anything I will be more than happy to talk on the phone or call back at a time that is convenient for you ..."

 

So began the flyer from Calamitous Kate which was pushed through my letterbox yesterday. I was in all afternoon so whoever delivered it must've done it by stealth. In the old days our bell used to ring and ring untill someone answered the door to talk to the candidate, in that case, the inimitable Victor Kneale. If the candidates really wanted to talk to the electorate they'd make more of an effort.

[Uhtred]

"I'm sorry we didn't get the chance to chat today. If you would like to discuss anything I will be more than happy to talk on the phone or call back at a time that is convenient for you ..."

So began the flyer from Calamitous Kate which was pushed through my letterbox yesterday. I was in all afternoon so whoever delivered it must've done it by stealth. In the old days our bell used to ring and ring untill someone answered the door to talk to the candidate, in that case, the inimitable Victor Kneale. If the candidates really wanted to talk to the electorate they'd make more of an effort.

Exactly the same thing happened to me. I watched the candidate walk up the path to my front door, he pushed a flyer through the letterbox and walked away. Didn't ring the bell; didn't knock on the door. When I read the flyer it began with "Sorry I missed you today". Lazy/cynical sod. Guess I'll be missing his box on the ballot paper with my "X".

[Roger Mexico]

I wholeheartedly agree. A number of manifestos I've seen insinuate that both votes must be used. These candidates clearly think they'll pick up the number twos...if you'll forgive the mental image that creates! I am very likely to cast one vote only.

 

A lot of people do. If you look at the results from Douglas South in 2011, there were 3959 votes cast for candidates. But 2402 people actually filled in a valid ballot , so (2 x 2402) - 3959 = 845 people must have only used one vote - about 35% of those voting. It's something that often used to be called 'plumping' and is an old Manx tradition. The idea is that if you have one candidate who you really want to get in, in a multiple-member seat, then if you use your other vote(s) you may end up nullifying your 'first' vote if the battle for election is between your chosen candidate and another you picked.

 

It's like a primitive for of STV if you like (which is why that was always a good system for the Island). It's a slightly different calculation if, like Notwell, you are also trying to keep someone out (though again STV works well for that) and you are probably better using two votes.

 

However most people still use both their votes and it's these sort of factors that always puzzle me when Parties such as Lib Van only put up one candidate in a seat like Douglas South (or only two out of three as in Onchan last time). If you put up a 'ticket' of two people from a Party (or a more informal association as Houghton and Henderson used to run) then the supporters of the Party or particular individuals standing have somewhere to place their other vote and it actually benefits both candidates. This actually now seems to have happened now in Douglas South with Keith Fitton as an unofficial LV#2, but it works better if you plan in advance.

[Lisenchuk]

Quilp: "I'm sorry we didn't get the chance to chat today. If you would like to discuss anything I will be more than happy to talk on the phone or call back at a time that is convenient for you ..."

 

"I'm cock-a-hoop that I didn't have to face you in person today....but if you really insist we can have a chat ,at distance, over the phone"

 

That's more like the truth,eh?

 

ETA: I'm seriously considering putting the pedal bin outside the front door with a 'Manifestos in here' notice attached.

[quilp]

I guess it would be a wild expectation that they'd be able to speak to everyone. It just made me wonder how many of those who'd been door-stepped actually engaged meaningfully with the candidates. And how many are subject to negative response or the dreaded hill shepherd treatment 😆. It should be compulsory voting for all. With a fixed-penalty notice on failure to do so. Australia can't be the only place where this in law.

[Lisenchuk]

I know of a couple who recently gave Cannan a good going over with a list of highly relevant questions. He didn't come out of it at all well.