Declan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I have vote. If the guy won't do the right thing and resign, he shouldn't be excluded from the ballot. Maybe in the long run it is better if he's beaten by a vote of the members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 "the right thing and resign" ? some may argue that the right thing is to stay and be voted out rather than be bullied into resigning by those who some may argue are acting in their own interests . I agree that it should be better that the members decide , if they reject him then he has stated he will be content and accept the decision. One wonders if he is re-elected if those who have sought to have him removed will accept the decision ,or go to form another SDP perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 If I was him I'd have resigned after the Brexit vote. I posted as much on Facebook before the shadow cabinet resigned. An honourable man would have recognised he wasn't up to the job and quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 That Owen Smith's played a sly campaign. Let Eagle take all the flack for initiating the challenge, then join the campaign as the healing candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 If I was him I'd have resigned after the Brexit vote. I posted as much on Facebook before the shadow cabinet resigned. An honourable man would have recognised he wasn't up to the job and quit. We'll have to agree to disagree on the "honourable " status of Corbyn , in my view he may wrong but he has stuck to his principles. Do you consider Eagles "honourable" given her weasel words of absolute support for Corbyn a week before taking a diametrically opposing view. If some on this site advised you to go because you held a contrary view to their own would you just go or perhaps wish to establish if all/the majority of the members agreed with them before you conceded defeat and sloped off? Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned but in any organisation it should be up to the members to decide who should represent their views not a few who hold positions of power and arrogantly regard the views of others as irrelevant . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I think he should stay. He's doing a grand job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I think he should stay. He's doing a grand job for Teresa May. Fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 If I was him I'd have resigned after the Brexit vote. I posted as much on Facebook before the shadow cabinet resigned. An honourable man would have recognised he wasn't up to the job and quit. We'll have to agree to disagree on the "honourable " status of Corbyn , in my view he may wrong but he has stuck to his principles. Do you consider Eagles "honourable" given her weasel words of absolute support for Corbyn a week before taking a diametrically opposing view. If some on this site advised you to go because you held a contrary view to their own would you just go or perhaps wish to establish if all/the majority of the members agreed with them before you conceded defeat and sloped off? Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned but in any organisation it should be up to the members to decide who should represent their views not a few who hold positions of power and arrogantly regard the views of others as irrelevant . It's not his views that are the problem, it's his ability to lead the party against the Tories. He's an effective, campaigning backbencher, an asset in that role - especially as he would be seen to now speak for a section of the party; but what matters is challenging the Tories, gaining ground in Scotland and winning as many seats as possible at the next General Election, campaign for Labour values in the meantime. There's a massive group of people in the centre and centre left that are not represented by any party now (except in Scotland - where the SNP have filled the void). I originally believed he was an honourable man, but an honourable man would have recognised that he just does not have the skillset required for the task at hand and should have resigned before there was any need for a rebellion. He's forced people into rebelling against him, people who've served the party for decades, people who had tried to be loyal to him but couldn't when it was obvious he wasn't up to the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I've never been a Labour man. Went straight from Communist to right wing but I think that is a fair assessment, Declan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 There is a massive group of people in the centre and centre left that are not represented by any party now (except in Scotland - where the SNP have filled the void). Very very true. One major headache for Labour is with Corbyn at the helm there is no way any moderate will vote for them. Plus, like Kinnock and Milliband, he is simply not seen as PM material. They also need to ditch McClusky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 There is a massive group of people in the centre and centre left that are not represented by any party now (except in Scotland - where the SNP have filled the void). Very very true. One major headache for Labour is with Corbyn at the helm there is no way any moderate will vote for them. Plus, like Kinnock and Milliband, he is simply not seen as PM material. They also need to ditch McClusky... Are any of them though? Eagle has all the gravitas of a school dinner lady. Beyond Hilary Benn who among them has any bearing at all? Possibly Jarvis? Although I think he said he wasn't interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Burnham can be pretty good on occasion - maybe better leading a campaign or even if he becomes Manchester Mayor campaigning for a city. Would probably be an effective Leader of the Opposition (as Kinnock and Milliband were) but that's different to being seen as a PM. I'm getting quite nostalgic for the days of Ed Milliband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 PK ..............Do you think people will vote for Eagles ? As a "leader" I am of the opinion that the only reason that people would follow her would be idle curiosity perhaps . Agree that Kinnock was not PM material , but he (and his family) seem to have done quite well financially , funny old world. Milliband ? ....... well not a man I warmed to> Frankly if Corbyn is rejected I would have trouble picking out a potential successor who would unite the party . If Hilary Benn had any bottle he'd have resigned earlier and stood himself rather than seeing himself as the puppet master and loading the gun while purporting to be an honourable man , definitely a "snakey" untrustworthy man in my book . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I think paswt. It's a time for a steadying of the ship, being an effective opposition, lessening the hit taken at the next election, reconnect with Scotland and the North. (Labour with Corbyn could end up with 50 MPs at the next election.) Then coming again the election after next refreshed and renewed against a tired looking Tory party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 There were some people on Radio 4 praising the decision to let Corbyn stand again saying 'that's democracy!'. One young chap declaring "Thousands of people have just joined the Labour Party in the last few days to make sure their vote counts and get Corbyn back in." LOL : http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-membership-nec-momentum-blairite-angela-eagle-a7133556.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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