woody2 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Something we agree on. I love Menorca too. The ancient streets of Mahon to the wide open spaces. No we're on the mainland down in Andalucia but well away from the Costas. Real Spanish pueblo. I've been grappling with the language since I was a kid and always try to speak it when I'm there because the locals do love it when you make an effort. Not many Brits bother even if they are there full time. Beautiful language too and a great way of life. However, I'm not keen on Tony Blair............. about as much as a civil servant is in the British isles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Something we agree on. I love Menorca too. The ancient streets of Mahon to the wide open spaces. No we're on the mainland down in Andalucia but well away from the Costas. Real Spanish pueblo. I've been grappling with the language since I was a kid and always try to speak it when I'm there because the locals do love it when you make an effort. Not many Brits bother even if they are there full time. Beautiful language too and a great way of life. However, I'm not keen on Tony Blair............. about as much as a civil servant is in the British isles It's true. You find that in deeds more than words. You should hear what they say about the lazy sods who make no effort at all and sit there with their fat white/red burnt bellies quaffing beer all day and shouting to each other in their South East England accents. They love that, and who can blame them? European togetherness in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Is Menorca Catalan speaking then? Similar, but it has it's own dialect of Catalan as does Mallorca. I haven't got a clue of Catalan, only Castilian Spanish but everyone has a knowledge of that so it's OK. Was British at one time too. Very interesting island. Ahh, thanks. I asked because there is a park in in Barcelona called Ciutadella, which I think is Catalan for Citadel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Good post Addie. I thought he was very nervous on Newsnight last night, almost like he couldn't quite get the right words out. Never supported going into Iraq, especially after Afghanistan, and what we now have is an almighty clusterfuck in the middle east with who knows who on which side. He is scum. I'm sure the only reason he switched to Catholicism is that it's one of the few religions that believes in the concept of absolution. Otherwise the only thing he has to look forward to is being buggered by a white-hot poker for all eternity for what he did. Smug piece of murdering crap.FFS how many more times do I have to post this up before you morons get it???Hallabja was completely wiped out. Men, women, children, babies. Probably by a particularly nasty nerve agent called Sarin. So come on smart-arses, where the fuck do you think that came from? Iraq invades Iran hoping to take advantage of the turmoil in the country. Iran responds by using it's superior manpower and up to a million Pasdaran are casualties due to appalling WMD like Powder Mustard Gas. So where do you clowns think that came from? And all you can think to do is chant your "No WMD found in Iraq" mantra which is as stupid and pointless as you are... Clown, moron, pointless, smart arse? That doesn't address the fundamental issue that the war or conflict was not based on international law and the troops went in ill-equipped and ill-prepared with no real plan for the aftermath. Who cares if it was based on 'international law' or whatever? Go on Gladys, convince me Saddam Hussein ruled within the constraints of 'international law' whatever that means. Go on, convince me that the million plus casualties he caused with his WMD on the Pasdaran were condusive with 'international law'. Go on, off you go. This should be worth a laugh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I wasn't aware that Saddam Hussein was the yardstick by which Britain measures good governance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 At least he kept order and the bulk of people could get on with their lives in a functioning society. Containment would have been much better than the hell hole that is Iraq now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 DId the trains run on time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 DId the trains run on time? A bit of lie that one, Mussolini simply took credit for his predecessor's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 DId the trains run on time? I'd hazard a guess that they probably did so more than they do now and with less likelihood of the track being blown to kingdom come in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Good post Addie. I thought he was very nervous on Newsnight last night, almost like he couldn't quite get the right words out. Never supported going into Iraq, especially after Afghanistan, and what we now have is an almighty clusterfuck in the middle east with who knows who on which side. He is scum. I'm sure the only reason he switched to Catholicism is that it's one of the few religions that believes in the concept of absolution. Otherwise the only thing he has to look forward to is being buggered by a white-hot poker for all eternity for what he did. Smug piece of murdering crap.FFS how many more times do I have to post this up before you morons get it???Hallabja was completely wiped out. Men, women, children, babies. Probably by a particularly nasty nerve agent called Sarin. So come on smart-arses, where the fuck do you think that came from? Iraq invades Iran hoping to take advantage of the turmoil in the country. Iran responds by using it's superior manpower and up to a million Pasdaran are casualties due to appalling WMD like Powder Mustard Gas. So where do you clowns think that came from? And all you can think to do is chant your "No WMD found in Iraq" mantra which is as stupid and pointless as you are... Clown, moron, pointless, smart arse? That doesn't address the fundamental issue that the war or conflict was not based on international law and the troops went in ill-equipped and ill-prepared with no real plan for the aftermath.Who cares if it was based on 'international law' or whatever? Go on Gladys, convince me Saddam Hussein ruled within the constraints of 'international law' whatever that means. Go on, convince me that the million plus casualties he caused with his WMD on the Pasdaran were condusive with 'international law'. Go on, off you go. This should be worth a laugh.... It is not my argument that Saddam was good, but that if you embark on military action without the proper approval, equipment and post-military plan, stuff goes wrong, as has been shown and we can expect to reap the after-effects for a long time yet. It was not our problem to solve, and certainly not in the way a solution was attempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 The Americans drove it. And you are either with them or not. That's modern alliances I'm afraid and the U S calls the tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 The Americans drove it. And you are either with them or not. That's modern alliances I'm afraid and the U S calls the tune. On most foreign policy matters I would agree that our interests coincide, but that should not mean slavishly following the piper on every occasion. In this instance the answer should have been the same as that given by Wilson about Vietnam. http://www.americansc.org.uk/Online/Wilsonjohnson.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 The Yanks interests in the Middle East dovetail quite nicely with Israel's and destabilising Iraq and Syria has a benefit for Netanyahu and the rest of the loonies in charge there, leaving only two powers in the region now, Israel and Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 The Yanks interests in the Middle East dovetail quite nicely with Israel's and destabilising Iraq and Syria has a benefit for Netanyahu and the rest of the loonies in charge there, leaving only two powers in the region now, Israel and Iran. And when they inevitably go head to head I doubt it'll be decided on penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 It is not my argument that Saddam was good, but that if you embark on military action without the proper approval, equipment and post-military plan, stuff goes wrong, as has been shown and we can expect to reap the after-effects for a long time yet. It was not our problem to solve, and certainly not in the way a solution was attempted. "Without proper approval" well excuse me but I'm pretty sure there was a vote in the HoC. And please don't start bleating on about the UN. With the veto countries being the US, China, Russia the UK and France (eh?) all with their proxies and differing agendas getting anything meaningful through is nigh on impossible. So dealing with the next meglomaniac dictator in Pyongyang will be tricky to say the least. Equipment is down to the Mandarins in the MOD. The rule for the planks is simply "If it's new and shiney I want one" but you basically just get on with it. There was probably a plan for the aftermath but it was basically a bit shit. The country fractured along religious lines stirred up by Iran for no other reason than to make life difficult for the US. Basically it was a clusterfuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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