Slim Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Do you then? Assuming apathy isn't a conspiracy theory, it's the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyiom Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 so it's accuse first, answer later, yeah, right; my apathy means I couldn't be bothered responding to this. Ma I'm actually more astonished that something like www.g8rally.com filters out the word god as potentially offensive....for me it just shows the whole thing is misguided well meaning BS...take St Bob; a week ago he was on TV telling us he wouldn't perform as he wasn't worthy of sharing a stage with these greats, then look what happens, the mans got done right by a lot of people but he's got an ego the size of Africa as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Ill informed rot. It's an impressive rant Rog, but it's all sh1t and shows up your ignorance of the subject. Nobodys asking for equal wealth. Nobodys expecting the poorest african nations to suddenly become developed countries, don't talk out of your chuff. What people like Geldoff (and when you talk about him you're really talking about Bono, Richard Curtis, Sir Bob Geldof, Harvey Goldsmith, John Kennedy, Midge Ure, etc) are talking about is an end to extreme poverty. Reducing the number of people who are dying because they have absolutely nothing, which is entirely preventable. They're not suggesting your average Ethiopian suddenly starts driving porches and owning their own summer house. I like the way you cite India as an example of why we should re-colonate Africa. The same India, who pulled itself free of colonial rule? The same India that's managed to drag itself out of the 3rd world by forging the kind of trade links with the developed world thats artificially prevented in Africa? That India? Idiot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ill informed rot? I wish it was. From what I’ve seen Africa nations, especially the Sub-Saharan ones, will never be prosperous while they have African rule and African management. And corruption isn’t at the heart of the problem either, any more than the level of debt that the countries hold. To my mind it’s not really corruption that is the issue, It’s far more about the choices that people make about how they want to live their lives. I see corruption as being a symptom rather than being the disease. Even with the most honest of governments and civil and private services if the population don’t want to or cant manage to live in First World conditions and all that entails regarding work ethic, cooperation with others, tolerance, acceptance of diversity and so forth, then they can not benefit from what the First World has. You want the goodies? You gotta pay the price. India? You singularly failed to understand the point that I was making. Let me try again. India, with far less than Nigeria when granted independence and with problems equal to if not worse than those in Nigeria when they became independent have succeeded amazingly well. I do wonder just where India would be today if they had all the advantages that the newly independent African nations had, especially Nigeria with its vast oil reserves and Rhodesia with its wonderful agriculture and mineral extraction resources. What was the difference? It’s obvious. Take South Africa, unquestionably the best success story of the continent and the reason? Well what’s the discriminating factor between SA and the rest of the African (now) scum nations? Maybe the fact that SA has a very cosmopolitan population has more than a little to do with it. Funny how the African nations who expelled the non-native population immediately went down the tubes very shortly thereafter. As for the trade issue – it’s a red herring. There’s no reason why a commodity producer in Africa who faces a world price for his crops that makes them uneconomic should not change what he produces. But even if the subsidies given to OUR farmers and paid for by OUR taxes was an issue, it’s still not OUR problem what the impact is on some dirt scratcher in Africa and it’s strange indeed that the same subsidies were being paid and that up to the point that Mugabe kicked the White people off the farms they were managing to do good business and trade in spite of them No, I really do believe that the best help that could be given to the African nations would be some form of colonisation. Being realistic not the colonisation of the past but maybe a management colonisation in which the governments of these now crap holes, made thus by their own populations, entered into long term agreements whereby competent managers and administrators came infor the long term, in fact an open ended committmemnt, used the locals as labour, and shared the profits with the treasury off the nation. Now that WOULD be some help. Help where it’s needed, help to govern and administer the countries, that was what moved them from primitive tribespeople to viable nations and onec removed has seen them revert to what they were once more. Idiot? Perhaps so. Perhaps for hoping that something that really would be of genuine help to millions of people in need will ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-rhymes Posted July 3, 2005 Author Share Posted July 3, 2005 It's working... You are all passionately talking about it, some will agree some won't my bet is that most people have good hearts. I have never ever seen a positive comment from some of the people on these forums. What do you believe in, what do you teach your children about the rest of the world? If everything becomes us against them I think you have a very sad world outlook... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 You're on the right track, and are closer to talking sense now you've backed off from demanding we once again throw a rope around the africans to drag them out of their rut. Yes, people like Mugabi screwed up by kicking out white farmers, and part of south africa and Indias prosperity is undoubtedly that they managed to find a future by retaining some of the legacy of colonisation. So the poorer nations need guidance and assistance, they don't need colonising again. Isnt' that what live8 is about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 I'm offended by the stupid cynicism surrounding this. This concert is win win, we get a fekking marvellous gig, the artists sell more albums and we get africa awareness. So where's the complaint? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And I'm offended that any criticism of this event is met with harrnaging. Damon Alburn made a small reasonable point, and received an outright tirade of abuse from Geldof. Your win, win situation is not true - "we get a fekking marvellous gig" - a matter of taste. Personally, there was nothing on the bill that would make me turn the telly on. "the artist sell more albums" - how is that a win? More xxxx records sold, some of which I might be unlucky enough to overhear. "we get Africa awareness" - I was always aware of Africa. Did you for example know that the British governments policy on Africa is broadly in line with the aims of this event. It is the British government that have put the issue on the table at the g8. The main problem however, is with Geldof, I supported Live Aid, and until this event I held him in high regard. BUT his behaviour in this matter has revealled him to be without scruples. It would have been such a small, but important act to have an African act on the main stage in their own right, but Alburn was personally abused for suggesting it. Simillarly, is it too much to expect that when someone calls on me to support a political cause that that person is able to use more than sloganeering to back up his arguement. Have you noticed in interviews, even the blandest questions set him off on a rant. It is as if we should be caught up in his passion and ignore that he is not saying anything concrete. So .... This is ... a political movement without clearly defined aims. an anti-government rally in support of government policy. about stimiulating a debate where any criticism is shouted down. a musical event without musical merit. pro African empowerment provide they don't get too big for their boots and expect to actually participate as equals and about ending poverty where the big financial winners are already millionaires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckett Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 "an anti-government rally in support of government policy." Anything but, it is to assist the President of the G8 in convincing the other 7 members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 "we get a fekking marvellous gig" - a matter of taste. Personally, there was nothing on the bill that would make me turn the telly on. I watched the opening five minutes, an awful rehash of Sgt Pepper, and then avoided it for the rest of the day. Did it get any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckett Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Madge and Robbie were good Missed Pink Floyd - grrrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posters Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 "we get a fekking marvellous gig" - a matter of taste. Personally, there was nothing on the bill that would make me turn the telly on. I watched the opening five minutes, an awful rehash of Sgt Pepper, and then avoided it for the rest of the day. Did it get any better? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. I was fairly underwhelmed by the bits I saw. I do think it's a good cause. I'm not convinced by the concerts themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 And I'm offended that any criticism of this event is met with harrnaging. Damon Alburn made a small reasonable point, and received an outright tirade of abuse from Geldof. It wasn't a reasonable point. It missed the point. It's not about promoting black artists. As I said above, which you seem to have ignored, if this was a WOMAD concert in hyde park, do you recon it would have got the same audience figures? "we get a fekking marvellous gig" - a matter of taste. Personally, there was nothing on the bill that would make me turn the telly on. I'm sure you're not surprised to find out that your tastes aren't the mainstream. There was plenty I enjoyed, especially the Floyd reunion. "the artist sell more albums" - how is that a win? More xxxx records sold, some of which I might be unlucky enough to overhear. It's a win for someone, and it doesn't harm me. Who cares? "we get Africa awareness" - I was always aware of Africa. Did you for example know that the British governments policy on Africa is broadly in line with the aims of this event. It is the British government that have put the issue on the table at the g8. Yes, and a lot of that has been attributed to Geldoff by Blair. This isn't aimed at the british govt, it's aimed at the rest of the g8 members. As for you being aware of Africa, good for you. You should know that anything to make more people aware is a good thing? Most of America think Africas in Utah or something, how is raising the profile in anyway bad? The main problem however, is with Geldof, I supported Live Aid, and until this event I held him in high regard. BUT his behaviour in this matter has revealled him to be without scruples. It would have been such a small, but important act to have an African act on the main stage in their own right, but Alburn was personally abused for suggesting it. Geldoff, Bono, Ure, all aging rockers. It's no huge surprise to me that the majority on stage were aging rockers. They're aging rockers that drew in the biggest live event crowd in the history. If they'd have put African acts on, they wouldn't have drew those numbers. Simple as that. They did however put african acts all day on two other stages, so if people wanted to watch them, they could. Whats up with that? a political movement without clearly defined aims.an anti-government rally in support of government policy. about stimiulating a debate where any criticism is shouted down. a musical event without musical merit. pro African empowerment provide they don't get too big for their boots and expect to actually participate as equals and about ending poverty where the big financial winners are already millionaires. Jesus, bleat. I didn't see it as any of those things. It's a hastily organised concert to raise awareness of the issue in advance of the meeting. It did that pretty well, didn't it? We need a fekking end cycnicism now camapaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posters Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 We need a fekking end cycnicism now camapaign. I don't think may people would sign up for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyiom Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 first name on the list would be slim; the not cynical little lilo who wrote me off as uncaring about africa without doing even the most basic research...:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 If you agree with the following: 1 double the aid sent to the world's poorest countries, 2 fully cancel their debts, 3 change the trade laws so that they can build their own future. Sign the petition here: http://www.live8live.com/ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In regards to above quote, the following article and interview might be interesting to read, before we send more and more aid to Africa: Choking on Aid in Africa Interview: Stop the Aid It seems the whole world is arguing what to do with a sick child, instead of asking the child what it wants to do... Although I don't really agree with Rog's "colonize'em" approach, some of the elements in it could be used to get the machine going again down there - more proper advice and supervision when it comes to development, instead of billions in aid and no result.. I hate glib tw4ts who stand in their ivory towers saying "it´ll never work" "waste of time""saint Bob who does he think he is""let 'em pay their own debt""it's their problem" etc. etc. This dude has spent over 20 years of HIS life on this cause, he doesn't have to do it, he doesn't profit from it, nobody even asked him to do any of the work he has done <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm sure most people will agree that nobody asked him to do anything, but Saint Bob and not profiting? You've gotta be kidding me.. That's the only thing he's famous for (ok, and one song..) and he's a multi-millionaire by now, charging thousands to give speeches and pass on his wisdom - doesn't profit from it, my a***! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I'm sure most people will agree that nobody asked him to do anything, but Saint Bob and not profiting? You've gotta be kidding me.. That's the only thing he's famous for (ok, and one song..) and he's a multi-millionaire by now, charging thousands to give speeches and pass on his wisdom - doesn't profit from it, my a***! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you enjoy just making this stuff up? What's the point like? Geldof is a multi millionaire in his own right, you think he's made that with after dinner chats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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