woolley Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Euthanasia That's a whole other subject in its own right. No doubt there is an old thread on it. I think it will have to be debated as time goes on. I for one don't want to be a gaga wreck of a body dribbling into my soup and to undergo suffering that you would be prosecuted for putting an animal through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I know, its a big subject, ultimately though it'll be brought in cos it'll be cheaper. Care homes won't like it, looking after 90+ years olds who should be dead for £4000 a month. Just let them smack themselves out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 hours ago, woolley said: Of course it is financially unsustainable. It is woefully inefficient. There are record amounts of money going in every year, and more projected in the next few years already surpassing the "Brexit bus" amount. It is a demand led service, and demand is at an all time high and growing, so no matter how much you pour in it will never be enough. So what do you suggest? Root and branch analysis of spending and costs. Fix prices of medication to a capped amount so pharma companies stop scalpping the NHS for profit. Increase funding for doctor and nurse training and incentivise that profession. Or...I dunno...scrap it and turn us into a medical third world country like the US where people have to choose between eating or £500 cough sweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 hours ago, woolley said: Of course it is financially unsustainable. It is woefully inefficient. There are record amounts of money going in every year, and more projected in the next few years already surpassing the "Brexit bus" amount. It is a demand led service, and demand is at an all time high and growing, so no matter how much you pour in it will never be enough. So what do you suggest? ban all foreigners from using it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, RIchard Britten said: Root and branch analysis of spending and costs. Fix prices of medication to a capped amount so pharma companies stop scalpping the NHS for profit. Increase funding for doctor and nurse training and incentivise that profession. Or...I dunno...scrap it and turn us into a medical third world country like the US where people have to choose between eating or £500 cough sweets. Typical socialist. No understanding of the role of price within a functioning economy and thinks a politician/expert/bureaucrat/him can easily set it to provide jam tomorrow for the people while punishing those evil capitalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Typical socialist. No understanding of the role of price within a functioning economy and thinks a politician/expert/bureaucrat/him can easily set it to provide jam tomorrow for the people while punishing those evil capitalists. If you are happy with the NHS paying £1000 for a bottle of saline solution... Or: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-mouthwash-drugs-ripoff-pharmaceutical-companies-efficiency-government-austerity-england-a8599366.html "The NHS is being “ripped off” by drug manufacturers and pharmaceutical firms who are charging as much as £1,000 a bottle for pain-relieving mouthwash while the government demands efficiency savings on staff and hospitals, ministers have been warned. More than £230m a year is wasted because of hundred-fold price increases on out-of-patent medications and custom mixtures made with much cheaper ingredients, Scottish National Party MP Dr Philippa Whitford said in questions to the government’s health ministers. The former NHS breast cancer surgeon asked what it was doing about cases like mouthwash used for relieving mouth ulcer pain in chemotherapy patients being sold at ridiculous mark-ups." ""The decentralised way that hospitals and NHS groups in England buy these medicines adds an “estimated £5bn to £10bn to NHS costs”, Dr Whitford said." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, RIchard Britten said: If you are happy with the NHS paying £1000 for a bottle of saline solution... that's what happens when you let unions run things..... 1 hour ago, RIchard Britten said: Fix prices of medication to a capped amount so pharma companies stop scalpping the NHS for profit. nhs already do that......the pharma companies just stop supplying them........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Typical socialist. No understanding of the role of price within a functioning economy and thinks a politician/expert/bureaucrat/him can easily set it to provide jam tomorrow for the people while punishing those evil capitalists. Typical evil capitalist. No understanding of the vital role public services play for the most disadvantaged in our society. They don't vote tory so fuck 'em by underfunding said services so tax cuts can be given to already well-off tory voters to keep them voting us back into power.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 hours ago, P.K. said: Typical evil capitalist. No understanding of the vital role public services play for the most disadvantaged in our society. They don't vote tory so fuck 'em by underfunding said services so tax cuts can be given to already well-off tory voters to keep them voting us back into power.... they haven't had any underfunding........ tax cuts have brought in more money......... its no wonder your so easy to con....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 8 hours ago, RIchard Britten said: A) Root and branch analysis of spending and costs. Fix prices of medication to a capped amount so pharma companies stop scalpping the NHS for profit. B) Increase funding for doctor and nurse training and incentivise that profession. C) Or...I dunno...scrap it and turn us into a medical third world country like the US where people have to choose between eating or £500 cough sweets. A) Agree, with the proviso that new drug research costs billions and needs to be funded. Perhaps that research should receive direct funding in return for the NHS not being so monumentally shafted for established drugs. B) Agree, with the proviso that the newly qualified commit to working in the UK for at least (say) 5 years before pursuing opportunities elsewhere. If not, pay back the training costs. C) I would maintain the NHS as a commissioning organisation buying in the best of treatment. I would not run it as a massive nationailised industry as it is at present. I would expect the service to improve on the same funding under this regime. Service to remain free at the point of delivery. Deliberate "health tourism" by foreigners to be stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 6 hours ago, P.K. said: Typical evil capitalist. No understanding of the vital role public services play for the most disadvantaged in our society. They don't vote tory so fuck 'em by underfunding said services so tax cuts can be given to already well-off tory voters to keep them voting us back into power.... Virtually everything there is wrong. The NHS in particular receives ever more funding each year. Tax cuts usually bring in more tax money because of increased inward investment, meaning more employment and less evasion. However, corporate tax should be imposed diligently on global multinationals who currently take the mickey by using the infrastructure and not paying their share. Level playing field needed for British taxpaying businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, woolley said: Virtually everything there is wrong. The NHS in particular receives ever more funding each year. Tax cuts usually bring in more tax money because of increased inward investment, meaning more employment and less evasion. However, corporate tax should be imposed diligently on global multinationals who currently take the mickey by using the infrastructure and not paying their share. Level playing field needed for British taxpaying businesses. Tax cuts only trickle one way and that's up. Jeeeeze! Who doesn't know that the major global players base themselves "advantageously" shall we say? This administration has been underfunding both the NHS and Social Care so "receiving ever more funding every year" is a glib feel-good sop for the stupid statement that tries to body-swerve the real issue i.e. they're both underfunded so their service delivery is creaking. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, P.K. said: Tax cuts only trickle one way and that's up. Jeeeeze! Who doesn't know that the major global players base themselves "advantageously" shall we say? This administration has been underfunding both the NHS and Social Care so "receiving ever more funding every year" is a glib feel-good sop for the stupid statement that tries to body-swerve the real issue i.e. they're both underfunded so their service delivery is creaking. End of. Ever more funding each year, but it's a demand led service so there will never be enough unless there was a total blank cheque. In a finite budget that can never be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 27 minutes ago, P.K. said: Tax cuts only trickle one way and that's up. Jeeeeze! Who doesn't know that the major global players base themselves "advantageously" shall we say? This administration has been underfunding both the NHS and Social Care so "receiving ever more funding every year" is a glib feel-good sop for the stupid statement that tries to body-swerve the real issue i.e. they're both underfunded so their service delivery is creaking. End of. what tosh........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 42 minutes ago, woolley said: Ever more funding each year, but it's a demand led service so there will never be enough unless there was a total blank cheque. In a finite budget that can never be. How can it be a "demand led service" when their own auditors can tell them they're underfunding it before it becomes policy? On 1/19/2019 at 12:36 AM, P.K. said: The NHS is financially “unsustainable” and the government’s much-trumpeted 10-year plan is inadequate to rescue cancer, mental health and social care services, the National Audit Office (NAO) has warned. Years of underinvestment have resulted in longer waiting times, critical staff shortages and “substantial deficits” that have been covered up by raiding funds for long-term reform, an NAO review found. These factors “do not add up to a picture that we can describe as sustainable”, it said. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-funding-spending-government-national-audit-office-conservatives-matt-hancock-a8733016.html It's like the brexiteers always ignoring uncomfortable truths. Talking of which what did you think of Jason Hunters view of the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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